Focal Utopia Review (collective stream of consciousness)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. TomHP

    TomHP Facebook Friend

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    uh... typical multiplication factors for headphones between ex-factory cost and retail are x4 to x6 even... No way in hell are those drivers $700 a pair.
     
  2. pippenainteasy

    pippenainteasy Acquaintance

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    Except BOM for electrodynamic drivers isn't a linear function, it's more of step function since the overwhelming cost is the diaphragm material. A non-be (say a Ti tweeter) with the same specifications is like $15-20, whereas a similar driver with a Be diaphragm is going to be $250 minimum.

    It certainly isn't likely to be exactly $700 or $750, since it's just rough extrapolation, but it won't be a small number, otherwise there wouldn't have been so many companies trying to fake beryllium in their products if it was that cheap to source.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  3. TomHP

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    For me the best thing I've heard yet was the crossfeed algorithm described in this AES paper and Sonarworks EQ feeding an HD800. Incredibly realistic sounding. The HD800 (or s?) is still on my shopping list but I've spent too much recently...
     
  4. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    This has zero impact for me. I simply compared the Utopia to the hd800 (stock and sonarworks EQed), T1, PMx2, TH900, and Ether C. The utopia sounded more balanced to my ears, and I thought it was better. I doubt there are many here that give a damn about "status headphone ownership"
     
  5. Drifterxny

    Drifterxny Friend

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    The same can be said about the utopia. I had a listening session of the Orpheus HE-1 and left with impression that hmm that was really nice and I want it. Went home and listened to the same songs on utopia/zds/Yggdrasil, the urge to sell my car to get the HE1 had completely faded.
    However, I don't consider that to mean Utopia plus whatever = HE-1, there were still areas that the HE-1 was just better in. I've personally tried HD800 (S version) plus sonarworks, and on certain genres it still sounds hollow and artificial compared to the Utopia. Is the 2k in price difference worth it, that really depends on one's financial situation. I'm not saying your view is wrong, but wanted to present a different view.
     
  6. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Initial impressions of the Utopia as compared with the HifiMan X V2's = Significant step up in clarity; the blend of lows to highs is about the same (i.e., mostly seamless, a positive trait); excellent mid-range dynamics that I'm very fond of, though some mild tizz that may get on my nerves over the long run (we will see); tighter but leaner bass; very comfortable fit on the head; sound stage size is about the same, but I get less of the 3 lobe blob effect with these (positioning left to right comes across as cohesive whole, maybe due to improved accuracy); treble seems mostly free of fuzz/glare, but they do sound brighter than the rolled off X V2s.

    Time will tell though. They are impressive out of the box, but sometimes that means fatiguing in the long run. I can already tell I'm likely to swap out these Genelex Gold Lion 6922's for something a little mellower.
     
  7. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    How interesting. The positive impressions remain, but something about the Utopia was causing my ears to bleed. I'm old enough that my frequency range is not what it use to be, but after spending an hour experimenting with Equalizer APO, fiddling with the mid-range, what I've ended up with surprises me. A -1dB, low shelf filter at 16Khz, and -4.5dB, peak filter at 20Khz. I know I can't consciously hear 20K, and while I can 16K, barely.

    The HifiMan X V2's roll-off the treble, but could it be I'm just sensitive to those higher frequencies that the Utopia's are able to reproduce? Maybe I'm sensitive to how accurately the higher frequencies were captured, or reproduced? Both? Don't know. But that annoying stab in the ears is gone. Mid-range is otherwise quite smooth sounding on these.
     
  8. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Interesting observations. I have listened to the Utopia several times, each for 15 min or more. Last time was about 10 days ago. while listening, I was contemplating hard to under why it tends to be fatiguing for long duration listening. What I came up with was that this phone produced a wall of sounds, lots of high midrange and treble elements were emphasized simultaneously and the mid-bass hump enhanced the whole energy level the sound conveyed. Thus, a lot of information and energy which could be overwhelming for the auditory system. For relaxed listening, I prefer a more relaxed and airy presentation, i.e., that there is plenty of space between sounds and the bass should not linger too intense too long too often. The utopia is not of that kind of sound signature, at least significantly less so than the modded Hd800 or Stax 009 which I listen to routinely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Probably the Be coloration. Some people have a problem with it, some people don't. Ultrasonic weapon effect.

    I would argue that even after EQ, they are still quite different. But yeah, I've have many chances to buy the Utopia for a big discount, but find it difficult since my modded HD800 is close enough. Utopia needs to be $2400 retail and $1200-1600 used / greymarket, like how HD800 is ... oh shit HD800 is less than $1000 retail now.
     
  10. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    After 4 days of near constant listening with the Utopia, I'm still really, really impressed. I thought I would find the soundstage too small for constant use and share time with my other headphones, but so far I haven't had urge to take them off my head.

    Now please note, there is definitely a bit of new toy syndrome going on right now, but these really are pretty super headphones. I mostly still agree with my impressions I posted in the other thread from a long test I did at my local dealer a few months ago. However, now that I have them at home and can really relax and listen closely I thought I would update my thoughts a bit. I'll try to keep this short.

    Bass: I'm still boosting the low end a bit via EQ. I'm a bit of a basshead, and I enjoy my music more with a bit more bass than the Utopia has in its stock tuning, so EQ it is. These are really punchy, percussive headphones and I find this is something you notice the most in the low end with headphones. They are different from the Abyss Phi, which are also a percussive headphone. There is more punch with the Utopia compared to the Abyss and its....rounder sounding? I find with the bit of a boost I am doing, there is plenty of bass and they take the EQ'ing very well. No signs of distortion, though I suppose if I went crazy there would likely be some.

    Mids: I don't find these to be a warm headphone, nor a cold headphone. They are again, similar to the Abyss Phi in this way and completely different from the LCD-4 (and LCD-3 which I used to own.) The mids are just presented well, not over emphasised at all.

    Treble: No sibilance that I have noticed so far, even at high volumes. The amount of detail is staggering, even more so than the Abyss Phi. The tiny, tiny details are much more present than I am used to. I'm hearing stuff up top I have never heard before.

    Soundstage: I was really worried about the soundstage being to small for my tastes. On my first listen with the Utopia when they first came out I was disappointed in the soundstage width. However, I'm really enjoying them now. There is more depth to the soundstage than I remembered and instruments layer very well within the soundstage.

    These are a fantastic addition to my small collection, and I think they will end up as my daily drivers. They are so comfortable and lighter than my other two headphones. They also seem very well built, and feel....premium?

    CONS: Cable is too long. Should have come with a balanced cable, or at least the option. Needs a bit of a low end boost for my personal tastes. COST (even with the recent $1000 discount.) Replacement pads and out of warranty work? Focal will bend you over. My dealer told me a funny little story about when he was speaking with Focal NA, and asked why the pads were so expensive. He answered in a heavy french accent "......ho ho....because ze are made en france..." Made me laugh.

    I'll leave it there for now as I'm trying to keep this short(ish.)

    [​IMG]
     
  11. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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    Beautiful pic, thanks for your insight.
    I have both utopia and LCD-3 and i don't find the utopia to be bass light at all. I think mine are from the firstly units produced and maybe there is some tonal changes between later units. In my opinion utopia bass are much better than aldeze lcd-2 and 3. cheers
     
  12. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    I was kind of the opposite than some people here in that I desired strongly for the sound to be fuller in certain genres like some rock music. That sounded weirdly empty to me on the HD800s (sdr modded). Utopia made those songs impact harder. I do miss the width of the soundstage somewhat, but I don't miss it as much as I expected. The lack of sibilance and significantly more bass on mine than the modded HD800s is just so much more enjoyable for my tastes. But the soundstage was a wow factor in classical music. The Utopias also sound better with crappy source quality to me perhaps because of the less prominent treble. Things sounded sharp at low bit rates or something on HD800.

    But like HD800 was always tiring for me, and I was always finding the bass too light. Utopia without EQ seems to nearly perfectly suit my tastes... It was pricey as hell for a pair of headphones I agree, but it was so nice to just have one pair that does it all for me. HD800 was so bass light I bought an Atticus lol... But the closed nature of those sounded too... Bloated to my ears. They're unfortunately the first headphones I've owned that I have no complaints about. All my others always had something nagging in my mind like I wish it was more... something. And even though the soundstage is small, the accuracy of it is still quite stunning. Classical music is still easily separate-able between instruments in my mind.

    I'm also somewhat intrigued that those WA7s below sounded very bloaty compared to Raggy. I hope the Aficionado will not have that same effect.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    This. Utopia I find is competitive with a modded HD800, better in some ways, worse in others.

    To put this into perspective: My speakers were less than 4k. Heck, my speakers were probably less than 3k. But then again you can do worse. There's a Devialet Phantom thing for a similar price and that's for just one and the Kii Three is 10k.
     
  14. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Still tweaking EQ settings; definitely something gone on for me with the very high frequencies. It doesn't sound wrong, just too energetic to the point of being un-comfortable.
    That makes sense. Still tweaking the EQ settings above 12K a bit. I don't want to completely kill the treble, but yea, something about those upper frequencies feels like an assault on my ears (or brain overload) with these cans.
     
  15. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    They do a lot well, but big thumbs up for this. The new toy syndrome is real, but wears off. The Utopia's do a lot well, but they do have coloration too, the frequency response is far from flat, and they do clearly have some annoying traits too.
     
  16. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    More stream of conscious impressions...

    On the + side, separation of sounds is very good. The low level details don't get mucked up or completely paved over by louder sounds. The sound stage is small though, or maybe I should write not big. Most of what I hear is positioned in my head or a few inches left or right. On the plus side my impression is positioning is mostly seamless. Sounds that move left to right, or right to left, pan without hiccups.

    Echos and reverb seem about right. Not overly sustained, but clear and present.

    I've adjusted to the voices, and live performances with the singers holding or a few inches from a mic, initially I thought maybe too much forwardness, but now I think that's about right. If the mic is a few inches from your face, the details, breathing, forwardness, is appealing.

    These may end up being my technical headphones, when I'm in the mood for that, but on the negative side, for multi hour listening, they are overwhelming for me.
     
  17. Chianti

    Chianti New

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    • Utopia right now get 40% of my listening time at home, Z1R 30%, HD 800 15%, HE-6 5%, LCD XC 5%, HD 650 5%, LCD 2 0% (... probably should hand them down to my kids)
    • Generally happy, the new $3k price seems ok for what you get.
    • Biggest shortcoming is limited soundstage width. Smallest among all the phones listed above.
    • Another observation, difficult to put in words ("... with an aftertouch of chocolate and mustard ...") is a slight same-ness of sound: Music is always a bit colored by the Utopia, similar to how listening to a McIntosh system will always have that house sound - which I coincidentally like as well.
     
  18. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Agree with this. It's not entirely unpleasant, and I'm not sure what the right word is. Metallic, but that's not it either. I want to use the word "Electronica" (is that a word?), a same-ness as you wrote. Then again all the HPs I have, have a sound, so I don't want to imply they are crap, because they do a lot really well.
     
  19. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    So the Utopia's are sounding 'better' to me, but I attribute this to brain adjustment. Switching HPs (or any gear), the pluses and minuses are brought into focus.

    The more time I spend listening to the Utopia's, the more my brain accepts their tonal character as 'right'. That written, definite kudos for the level of detail, instrument separation, and energy level (even at low volume) that I enjoy at a live performance.
     
  20. dubharmonic

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    Been listening to the Utopias for 5 days now, and reading up on this thread from the start. I appreciate all of the thoughtful posts. Even after long listening periods the mids feel forward and very warm, even gooey compared to the HE-1000 V2, SL-500 or GH1. The Utopia seems to show more detail in the mids but less detail in the treble, though they're certainly not dark. Not really what I was expecting after reading impressions from others. Maybe my brain is still burning in?

    Using an iMac -> Yggdrasil -> AudioQuest Red River -> MHA150 for comparisons.
     

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