64 Audio's Tia IEM's (A18/U18, Fourte)

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by E_Schaaf, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Hi all,

    I won a pair of Tia Fourte's at CanJam SoCal 2017 and I've been enjoying them for a while (I've only ever had two other IEM's - Andromeda and IE80). Were it not for the raffle I would never be able to afford a pair, so this is a unique opportunity.

    I was wondering if anyone with a decent measurement rig would be willing to meet up in the greater Los Angeles area to gather some of the information behind what I'm hearing and contribute this to the SBAF community. Got some other fun stuff to measure too.

    I suppose this should be a discussion / impression thread for the new 64 "flagships" as well. Will post my own impressions soon (would like to see measurements to solidify what my ears are telling me).
     
  2. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    I'm interested in hearing how the Fourte compares to the Andromeda..
     
  3. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Campfire Andromeda v. 64 Audio Tia Fourte

    I drafted a long post on google drive a while ago about Andro vs Fourte it but I cant seem to find it.

    Anyway, heres a shorter take -

    I have both with me right now, running off of either the Mojo, Galaxy Note 5, or V800 DAC into Valhalla 2. I'll start off by saying I havent heard the legendary ZX2 Andro pairing, and I'm sure both IEM's could achieve better technical performance with a higher quality source. As far as I know, there haven't been any reliable measurements of the Fourte, so my impressions will largely be subjective in nature.

    I tend to listen to instrumental hip-hop, east-coast small-ensemble instrumental jazz from '54-'64, various forms of contemporary electronic music (typically not highly commercial releases), and chamber music written after 1950.

    I am using stock cables, and while I've rolled tips quite a bit with both IEM's, I prefer the Campfire Marshmallow Foams on both. These are the tips that inform the following impressions.

    On to the sound (after my general comments I'll break the impressions into three categories - bass, mids, treble):

    General Comments

    I would generally consider the Andro to be more or less "reference" in terms of tonality, aside from slightly emphasized mid and low bass (at least out of my sources), and rolled off extreme treble. Many find the Andro's treble extension sufficient, but my hearing extends to 19 kHz and I certainly find them to be a bit lacking in 'air' (like many IEM's). The Andros are forgiving and fatigue free, slightly warm, with macro- and micro-dynamics better than most BA IEMs I've heard and excellent separation from left to right and front to back. They're the kind of IEM you forget about once you start listening. Everything sounds balanced and more or less 'correct'. Andros seem to isolate a little bit better than fourte, but they are also more sensitive to source hiss and noise, so I'd call it a toss-up on that front (eliminating unwanted noise). Both are equally as comfortable to my ears, even with listening sessions in excess of 5 hours.

    At first listen, the fourte gives a much more colorful and impressionable type of signature. I'd describe it as a gently downward-sloping, well-executed W-type tone, with the peaks close to the extremes of the audible band (lowest and highest octaves). It is very flattering on about 3/4 of the music I listen to, but can sometimes although rarely be fatiguing if the mastering is poor. For people with lesser hearing extension this may not be an issue at all. To my ears Fourte isnt as forgiving as andro for this reason, but gives a more open (slightly less warm or thick) and dynamic sound most of the time. The spatial rendering on the fourte is a little diffusive in the center compared to andro, but with great separation and an impressive amount of depth. I can't imagine an IEM sounding much more speaker-like than the fourte in terms of staging and dynamic range without extensive amounts of dsp, even though there will always be inherent limitations with both headphones and IEMs in terms of these qualities.

    _______________

    Bass

    Fourte's dynamic low driver has a whole lot of kick and very natural sustain, with more of an emphasis on sub-bass than andro's more linear bass presentation. I am a sucker for the Fourte bass with electronic music. It is thunderous when it needs to be, and as punchy as one could possibly desire from an IEM at this point in time, performing at or above the level of the best DD IEM's I heard at RMAF. Low-end extension leaves nothing to be desired with both IEM's, the balance is just different. I can see Andromeda appealing more to acoustic bass, with a tad more body and resonance, but at the expense of speed and punch. Andros linear low-end performance also transitions very evenly into the low mids, whereas with the Fourte the lows and mids feel like more distinct bands in the signal.

    Mids

    Andromeda does mids flawlessly to my ears (in terms of response). The Andro has a certain cohesiveness to the sound throughout the signature. The timbral rendering is consistent between the drivers, and there is definitely a feeling of smoothness and effortlessness. On the fourte, there is an impression of greater resolution in the mids, but I am uncertain if this is a measurable difference or simply due to FR. Regardless, I hear more texture in the mids with the fourte, though with slightly less immediacy and body compared to andro. Andro gives a smoother, thicker presentation with vocals and horns, but Fourte seems to resolve acoustic harmonics and articulations with more clarity, though seated slightly further back in the mix.

    Treble

    Andro treble is as smooth as a baby's bottom, but I find it to be lacking slightly in terms of air and sparkle. Many will not find the latter claim to be the case, and I'm sure this is different with various cables and sources. Again, andro has a feeling of cohesiveness here - the transition from the mids into the treble is heard as very linear and lacking any sibilant peaks. I hear a certain softness (though I wouldnt describe it necessarily as 'veil') with the andromeda on vocal consonants, cymbals, and string articulations, as well as the upper harmonics of snare hits, though it is forgiving in nature and pleasing to the ears. I would describe the presentation as gently glossy moreso than sparkly. The fourte definitely has a sense of crispness and shimmer that is not present in the andro treble. I hear the fourte as having undoubtedly higher extension, but without the same smoothness of the andro. There is probably a mild bump or two way up there (above 10k I would wager), and with most recordings, this contributes a sense of air and sparkle without fatigue, unless those peaks are accentuated in the source. Like I said before, I find this presentation to be flattering 3/4 of the time. I dont want to overstate it either - it doesn't sound artificial, and can definitely be changed with tip rolling (I find the campfire marshmallow tips to smooth this out to an ideal level). The longer- and narrower-flange tips accentuated it the most (especially the silicon ones), but the marshmallows have a slightly shorter and wider flange than the stock foam tips on the fourte. It doesnt draw attention to itself with the marshmallows.

    _______________

    Final notes


    Andro is more correct in terms of tonality, Fourte is more fun (content-dependent).

    Fourte gives a greater impression of 3D rendering (front-back) than andro to my ears, but this may be due to FR.

    Fourte feels more dynamic as well, but this also may be due to FR.

    Fourte has greater treble extension and more perceived 'air'.

    Some may not consider a move from andro to fourte an 'upgrade' on all fronts, depending on the source and content. I probably would not spend an extra 2.5k on the fourte if I already had the andromeda, but I do enjoy the fourte more 75% of the time, even though the andro isn't necessarily lacking on any fronts. Both are incredible IEMs, and I'm very thankful to have won the fourte for free. I'll be keeping both.

    edited for formatting
    edited again for title
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  4. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Thanks for sharing!

    Listening with silicon tips, the fourte had some odd peaks in the treble which threw things off timbre-wise for sure. It's the Achilles heel of the fourte, an otherwise very nice iem which feels as though it's the beta version of a great iem to come later.

    The Andro is very good and has that well documented 6.5k peak/plateau, not sure I'd call it veiled.

    Both do better with foam tips.
     
  5. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Hmmm I wonder how the new Tia Trio is compared to the tia fourte
     
  6. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    It's very similar, I heard it at RMAF it was Tia Y iirc. There was like less bass I think and the treble was slightly different. X sounded very different from it. I'm not sure they announced what the X was yet? Oh or is that the U12T?

    Though I didn't enjoy Tia Fourte either so I'm not the best person for this comparison. I don't like balanced armatures all that much I guess.
     
  7. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I heard the X and Y at RMAF as well. The Y (trio) to me sounded very much like the fourte, but without those treble peaks, slightly blurrier bass (due to a higher crossover freq coming off the bass driver) and a little fleshier mids. X is indeed the U12T.
     
  8. JuniorsGradez

    JuniorsGradez New

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    I owned the U18 Tzar and sold it...I felt my Zeus was more resolving and had a crystal clear sound compared to the U18
     
  9. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    The 64Audio u12t are more neutral-smooth take compared to u18t, with a tuch of extra sub bass. Both need comply tips to tame treble peaks much like the Andros. I have the u12t - was trying to like them with silicone but gave up, the treble was a little grating and out of place. With foam they are warm/neutral, and are on another level to the Andros (hard to believe but yous gets what yous pays).. they sound like quality speakers in a treated room (or a club), with explosive dynamics and holographic imaging, and no glaring peaks or dips. Depending on the track, at times they sound more speakerlike than my Genelecs.
    I'm a neutral-smooth fiend (HD650/Andro), and have no reservations recommending the u12t, just don't forget those complys. The u18t not so much, but then we didn't spend quality time together
     
  10. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I agree....u12t has that diffuse room sound that the andromeda has, but I like myself a sharper sound so ymmv!
     
  11. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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    How about soundstage and overall detail retrieval? Does Fourte it’s in another league when compared to andromeda?
     
  12. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    In detail retrieval it’s the only iem I’ve heard that was like instantly clearly above it. Soundstage I’m not as sure as Andros is quite holographic for an iem.

    But Fourte definitely is the top of the pack for detail retrieval. Maybe someone will argue the new Legend X is too or something, but I couldn’t hear that vs all its bass.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  13. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    As @Galm says, from my own comparisons I'd say the tia Fourte not only exhibits more detail than Andromeda, but more than any other IEM I've tried.

    Now, for sound-stage (such as it is for headphones or IEMs), I have found that the IEMs using either ADEL or APEX have delivered a consistently more open, spacious and dimensional result than any of the conventional IEMs. This was particularly apparent with both the Zeus XR and XRA when directly compared, and with the 64Audio U12 w/ the adjustable MAM ADEL module (tested in fully open and fully closed positions).

    However, ADEL and APEX both mean less isolation.
     
  14. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I don't know about the legend x but the phantoms I currently have are a step above in detail retrevial and layering, though the soundstage is not as big as the Andromedas. It's also better at conveying textures and has more depth and realism. I preferred the Tia fourtes to the Andros, but still not sold on the pricing. Same goes for the phantoms...at 1899 vs 799 bstock Andromedas, it's not 2x better.
     
  15. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Stole these tia fourte measurements from this thread - https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dayton-imm-06-measurements-of-325-iems.3611/

    [​IMG]

    A lot of people take issue with those peaks around 10k, which is understandable. Definitely a dash of brightness, though I never found it fatiguing unless using silicon tips.

    However, an extremely simple mod and change of tips subjectively smooths out the treble quite a bit, while retaining the unprecedented air and staging that these IEM's put out.

    I'm using symbio w tips, which I feel offer the most tactile bass and microdynamic contrast, without being as fatiguing as other silicon tips, nor as blurry as foams. Great comfort too, at least for these ears.

    I also cut out two tiny squares from a teabag, washed and dried them, and placed them over the nozzles and under the tips. Definitely evens out the treble to a level where it doesn't feel exaggerated or bright at all, but still retains sparkle and air. Makes normal silicon tips listenable and the foam tips even warmer - brings out the mids. Paired with the mojo (which I don't really love with anything aside from the fourte), I wouldn't want it much warmer.

    Worth a shot for anyone who is discontent with the treble performance and has 5 minutes to spare.

    Sorry I don't have a measurement rig to show a quantitative difference.

    Someday I'll trim back the excess teabag paper to make it look less jank. Not today.

    [​IMG]

    Happy modding!
     
  16. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    So how do these treble peaks play out in the custom versions of the 64 audio stuff?
     
  17. Panohm

    Panohm Friend

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    They don't offer either the Tia Trio or Tia Fourte in custom, not sure how the peaks in the all BA designs are though.
     
  18. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Yeah, obviously referring to the ones that do exist (like the A12t) rather than ones that don't.

    However, that does depend on finding people who has heard them, but whose impressions are worthwhile (known, consistent tastes and observational skills etc.). Grumble.

    It's kinda worth knowing, though, as you can't faff around with different tips, pretty obviously.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  19. Panohm

    Panohm Friend

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    Sorry my response was pre-coffee :p .
    I'm really interested in the N8T which @La Cenric has taken a liking to.
     
  20. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Hey, mine was post-coffee, I have no excuse ;)

    Yeah, it's tricky, pretty sure that none of the usual suspects with will-understood tastes use stuff like that. It's a bit

    [​IMG]

    I suppose it's easier with universals, getting loaners etc..
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018

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