System Synergy - Special Sound

243
@atomicbob

Grahad2 said: ↑
"I mean, the diagram and the paragraph seems to tell different things already. Sort of confused."

Me too. What is a 5 level 3rd order SD modulator? Maybe someone with better depth of knowledge could explain.
atomicbob, Wednesday at 9:47 AM

 

244
Marvey

MattRG said: ↑
So, this happened today:

Way back in the beginning of February I ordered a basic Fischer Audio fa-011. Yesterday, it finally arrived from Russia. I have to say, for $159 it is a heck of a lot of fun. No, it isn't accurate and it sort of falls apart at high volumes but for just sitting back and listening to a Classic Rock playlist on Tidal it is much, much better than I thought it would be.

In fact, I like it so much that the pictures you are seeing are taken in my office at work. Yes, I unplugged my normal Modi Multibit and Lyr 2 combo and brought them to work so that I could play with the fa-011's today in between phone calls and paperwork. In my mind this is either the beginning of something beautiful or the first signs of a serious problem.

Click to expand...



So glad you bought this instead of the Grado GS2000! I believe they toned down the highs. I should ask @Drakkard for another sample. I actually like it for what it is, and at the price, this headphone should get more exposure. The FR works great for a lot of classical recordings.

Marvey, Wednesday at 10:06 AM

 

245
Grahad2

atomicbob said: ↑
"Me too. What is a 5 level 3rd order SD modulator? Maybe someone with better depth of knowledge could explain."

My guess is that it's a 4bit output SD modulator (that runs at 64Fs), so there's only 5 possible output digital values the modulator outputs. Combined with the upper 6 bits (that have 63 possible output values) there's 67 (since 0 + 0 = 0) possible values that feed into a DWA, that goes into a current output DAC. Since the input is happening at 8Fs, but modulator output at 64Fs, where Fs was defined in pg5 as 44.1kHz (or sampling req, but using redbook as baseline), it's a 6.066bit/2822.4kHz+ DAC at heart. Could be very wrong!

Edit: Just found a DIYAudio thread, reading now.

Grahad2, Wednesday at 10:24 AM

 

246
MattRG

Marvey said: ↑

"So glad you bought this instead of the Grado GS2000! I believe they toned down the highs. I should ask @Drakkard for another sample. I actually like it for what it is, and at the price, this headphone should get more exposure. The FR works great for a lot of classical recordings.

Click to expand..."

I believe they must have. I'm not hearing the 5.5k - 9k rise as being so prominent. I don't think I could let them go at this moment (still in the "new toy" phase) but once my Eikons get here I would be totally down for lending them out for measurements if you haven't sourced another pair.

And I completely agree about these needing more exposure. I think they are pretty wonderful considering the modest price. I actually like them a good bit better than the Meze 99 Classics that cost twice as much, just to give one point of comparison.

MattRG, Wednesday at 11:07 AM

 

247
@atomicbob

The Protester - an excellent place to begin (and maybe stay for a long time):


System Notes:

Breeze Audio DU-U8 - all the USB decrapifier one needs while getting an auditory handle on USB noise effects on DACs

Schiit Modi MB - extraordinary introduction to MB DACs

Vali 2 with 7DJ8 - excellent sound for HD6x0 and HD800 - many thanks to @Changeling for these tubes - price estmates based on ebay offerings

HD650 - plenty written elsewhere - this one stands the test of time

Waves NX, (DDMF Metaplugin required for JRiver vst hosting) Sonarworks Ref3 - Immersion Virtualization System - exceptional 3D presentation with timbrel correctness of live recordings

This small footprint system offers exceptionally high performance / price ratio. This is my current choice for a highly transportable system.

Addendum:
Macallan Rare Cask is an optional but highly recommended component. Pricing varies by region. In my current spot on the planet it sells for $364 US after all the taxes and distributor cuts. My ration is approx 6 ~ 8 drams a few times each month for special occasions.

Photo stats:
Low ambient light
Nikon D3300 with 35mm prime lens
f10, 2 second exposure on a carbon fiber tripod

System Name courtesy of @Changeling

Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
atomicbob, Mar 26, 2017

 

248
Grahad2

I think what helps the most is that which is in the picture but not in the pricelist.

(Initially confused by the 2x RCA to BNC, until I realised you went RCA -> BNC -> RCA).
Grahad2, Mar 26, 2017

 

249
@Gemini

atomicbob said: ↑
"An excellent place to begin (and maybe stay for a long time):
View attachment 7685
View attachment 7686

System Notes:
Breeze Audio DU-U8 - all the USB decrapifier one needs while getting an auditory handle on USB noise effects on DACs
Schiit Modi MB - extraordinary introduction to MB DACs
Vali 2 with 7DJ8 - excellent sound for HD6x0 and HD800 - many thanks to @Changeling for these tubes - price estmates based on ebay offerings
HD650 - plenty written elsewhere - this one stands the test of time
Waves NX, (DDMF Metaplugin required for JRiver vst hosting) Sonarworks Ref3 - Immersion Virtualization System - exceptional 3D presentation with timbrel correctness of live recordings
This small footprint system offers exceptionally high performance / price ratio. This is my current choice for a highly transportable system.
Click to expand..."

@atomicbob Do you hear much difference between the Singxer SU-1 and the Breeze DU-U8?

Gemini, Mar 26, 2017

 

251
@landroni

jexby said: ↑
"the Macallan (rare cask) seems to augment that stack somewhat."

Not only that, but it's not even priced in the system...
landroni, Mar 26, 2017

 

252
@gixxerwimp

Grahad2 said: ↑
"(Initially confused by the 2x RCA to BNC, until I realised you went RCA -> BNC -> RCA)."

I'm still confused

PC > USB > Breeze > RCA > ... ? ... > RCA > Modi Multibit

Edit: Doh! Got it
Is there a sonic advantage to this? BNC impedance voodoo better than digital coax?

landroni said: ↑
"Not only that, but it's not even priced in the system..."

I think that component is optional/variable/consumable, and therefore difficult to nail down a price for
gixxerwimp, Mar 27, 2017

 

253
@Changeling

I'm using a similar system but without the DDC. Keeping my secondary system stack as low as possible and hoping for something launched by Schiit in this field.
This is a system that can be enjoyed for years. Worth noting here is that Sonarworks Ref3 & Waves NX (+ Metaplugin) can be used with your current system as well as secondary and third systems (Sonarworks include a 3-computer-licence , Waves NX can be transferred over USB-stick) but will also follow and provide benefit to any upgrades done on the hardware side.

But @atomicbob haven't you given this a system name?
Maybe "The Protester" ? This is a system that stands up on its own against the inflation in DAC-pricing, AMP-pricing, HP-pricing, Cable-pricing. Hell it even tells the Siemens CCA to f**k off in my opinion.
"You can kill the protester, but you can't kill the protest"

@atomicbob Let me know when you've rolled the second 7DJ8 I sent. If I remember correctly I sent 2 Ultrons of different construction. I bought these tubes for about $8 each. New in box.It's taking a chance with these Ultrons. Some sound great, some less great.

Changeling, Mar 27, 2017

 

254
@landroni

atomicbob said: ↑
"HD650 - plenty written elsewhere - this one stands the test of time"

Wouldn't the HD600 be a better pairing mate to the Vali 2? My understanding is that both Vali 2 and HD650 are somewhere on the lean side, and that for this reason HD600 would synergize better with the amp. Or does the 7DJ8 tube have an effect here?
landroni, Mar 27, 2017

 

255
@Changeling

landroni said: ↑
"Wouldn't the HD600 be a better pairing mate to the Vali 2? My understanding is that both Vali 2 and HD650 are somewhere on the lean side, and that for this reason HD600 would synergize better with the amp. Or does the 7DJ8 tube have an effect here?"

Vali2 is very prone to SQ change following a tube roll, but in my opinion the effect is slightly decreased in a setup like this. Sonarworks and Waves NX has a much bigger impact on the sound, and is much more worth the investment. That holds true for both HD650 and HD800.

I can't answer your question on HD650/600 though, apologies if my reply is only adding noise.
Changeling, Mar 27, 2017

 

256
@cskippy

HD650 lean? Then HD600 is tinny in comparison. HD650 is bassier with smoother treble than HD600 which has less mid bass bump but a bump around 3?kHz which can make it shouty.
cskippy, Mar 27, 2017

 

257
@spwath

atomicbob said: ↑
"Relatively inexpensive fully balanced external multibit DAC and amp system:

The Ross Martin PCM1794A has the following attributes:
1. $250
2. Multibit - SD hybrid
3. Balanced outputs
4. DC coupled
5. Hand made to order - don't expect quick build / delivery

Still getting my head around the sound of this system. PCM1794A has been powered on for several days and the sound continues to change, usually for the better.

how does it compare to the same priced modi multibit?
spwath, Mar 27, 2017

 

258
@atomicbob

Grahad2 said: ↑
"(Initially confused by the 2x RCA to BNC, until I realised you went RCA -> BNC -> RCA)."

gixxerwimp said: ↑
"I'm still confused
PC > USB > Breeze > RCA > ... ? ... > RCA > Modi Multibit

Edit: Doh! Got it
Is there a sonic advantage to this? BNC impedance voodoo better than digital coax?"

I use RCA to BNC adapters and BNC cables as they are stock items on my acoustic lab shelves. These are laboratory grade components and yet not magically expensive. They pass muster with NIST and ISO9001, which is necessary for measurements, especially if used in peer reviewed publications. A small sampling of just the BNC / dual banana comoponent shelf:

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

259
@atomicbob

landroni said: ↑
"Wouldn't the HD600 be a better pairing mate to the Vali 2? My understanding is that both Vali 2 and HD650 are somewhere on the lean side, and that for this reason HD600 would synergize better with the amp. Or does the 7DJ8 tube have an effect here?"

The 7DJ8 reduced an already low hum and residual noise of the EH 6CG7 to yet lower levels. This improved the contrast of the audible blackground. I think the Immersion Virtualization System, IVS for short, (Waves NX + Sonarworks VSTs) has the greater effect in my system.

Similar to @songmic love of OOYH, I find it difficult to listen without my IVS. If there is interest in replicating my IVS VST stack I have a PDF prepared as a rough guide. A media player that can host VST is required. @Changeling has replicated this system and I believe to have found useful.
atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

260
@zonto

@atomicbob, do you have an opinion on using a digital cable terminated with RCA on one end (Canare RCAP from Blue Jeans) and BNC 75ohm on the other end? Need to use S/PDIF out of my source, but toyed with this idea running into Yggdrasil.

zonto, Mar 27, 2017

 

PAGE 14 of the O.G. thread:

 

261
@atomicbob

Gemini said: ↑
"@atomicbob Do you hear much difference between the Singxer SU-1 and the Breeze DU-U8?"

The answer depends:
1. how noisy are the USB ports on the computer or laptop being used?
2. how much resolution does the DAC have?
3. what is the noise floor of the DAC using native USB compared to the DAC SPDIF or Toslink input?
4. what is the scheduling jitter of the DAC USB driver?

It is possible for a lower resolution DAC to minimize the differences between Singxer SU-1, Gustard U12 and Breeze DU-U8.

I have in my task queue a measurement comparison of these three DDC with several DACs. Given my somewhat unpredictable schedule at the moment, completion may be weeks away or months away.

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017