Focal Elear and Utopia

The 2nd point I've quoted above is a bit of a straw man. I don't think anyone here (I know I haven't) has said that burn in will make a shit speaker "magically" sound good. Nevertheless I agree 100% with your statement, though my experience is that burn helped with the one-note bass I was hearing in my dedicated HTR with my reference track. YMMV as always.

With regards to your first point, "absolute nonsense" is rather harsh and dogmatic no? I've read several articles on the issue of speaker burn-in and every one I've come across cites real measurable differences that make complete sense in light of the fact that a speaker driver is a mechanical device (you've said so yourself). Now the controversy here is whether said measurable differences can even be perceived. My experience is that they can be and yours is that they can't. I guess it could be that my brain is getting burned in some, but my experience is that the differences while not enough to make a shit speaker sound great were noticeable and desired.

I find it a bit ironic that the conventional wisdom here on SBAF (which I agree with BTW) is that headphone measurements don't tell the whole story and two headphones that measure the same or very close can sound very different... "we can hear things that can't be measured". But in the case of burn-in studies there are measurable differences in NEW drivers before and after burn in which are reasonable given the materials being used and it seems like you are saying... "those changes in measurements can't be heard".

You state you haven't heard a difference yourself and have built many speakers, but could it be that the drivers you've had lying around are old enough that the materials in question have already settled absent being run? Is the effect of burn-in one of speeding up the time it would otherwise take for certain materials to become more supple (degrade?).

 

A little side note for those reading the NYer impressions and wondering what Marv was saying about us: A few of us (me, sphinxvc, dr. higgs, steelcannon, and honorary member Serious) already know what we like and dislike. We don't get to experience nearly as much gear as the guys in the west coast do, and I think that's part of the reason why we're more critical of things when we do actually get to listen to them.

When we compared the Elear to our favorite headphones (hd650, hd800, andromedas, uerms), they just don't measure up well enough. See our two meet impressions threads to get a better sense of what we like and how we evaluate things.

 

I expect to receive the loaner tomorrow. I am a real softy on these things so there may not be too much thrashing. But if I do then

Next up on the tour is me and everyone from the NY crew knows I am a softy and generally don't have too much bad to say. So, if I am less ciritcal then people should understand that. And if I have the same reactions as the rest, you know things must actually be pretty bad. Looking forward to listening to these later tonight and will try to post impressions soon.

 

Yes, the notion of burn-in might not necessarily be permanent. It's more of a warm up than burn-in. From what I've seen (can't find the source atm) a lot of the woofer parameters will change as you start heating things up, but then go back to their original state after left unexcited for an hour or so. The net change after things have returned to rest will only be marginal, arguably "inaudible".

 

Heating up the magnet and xover components sufficiently will certainly change things sound wise, but that takes a lot of power. Heating up the voice coil will also increase its resistance.

 

It's the wax in your ear melting.

 

The primary lesson I gleaned from this very tired debate was that my 2010 HD650s are probably in need of replacement, as it is more likely the drivers have degraded, rather than improved, performance over six or so years of heavy use.

 

I'll have an Elear by Sunday or Monday.

 

Well Marv, this "asshole" is perfectly fine with the Elear being shit, any pointed comments or questions I've made about SPEAKER burn in have been inquisitive in nature. I'm simply trying to understand the point of view and support (anecdotal, scientific, or otherwise) for burn in being a myth. If I'm guilty of something it's going off in this tangent in the Elear thread.

I have been hoping for the mythical "super hd650", anything really with better materials and an up to date design and similar performance... which is why I'm here. This "asshole" is no fan boy, I have no horse in this race, my comments have nothing to do with defending the elear. I haven't even heard the headphone.

 

I dont buy ppls first impressions in show environment. Especially those from ppl with long hair or sideburns or with a cap or glasses on. Poor seal poor impression on bass

 

I don't trust any "male" with long hair or sideburns period. Or people who wear hats and sunglasses indoors.

 

I think you just described 75% of audiophiles I've seen. Probably also the guys hyping up focals. Excited to get my own impression of elear. Betting on sideburn sunglasses guy being easy to impress.

 

What about the fanny packs?

 

I probably shouldn't write anything at all now. In theory, I want to give the Elear a fair listen and come up with some concrete impressions. But right now, after about 25 minutes of the Elear out of my Liquid Carbon I have a headache bordering on migraine. So, it is a little hard to say anything intelligent. Clearly these have some solid technicalities and seem to resolve well and have some nice instrument separation and wide-enough (for me at least) soundstage. But the tonality on this combo just messed with my head. I will try to be more specific when I uncurl from the fetal position. I have to go back tomorrow and read what the rest of the NY crew wrote but my guess is they already nailed in articulate terms whatever it is I am hearing. But I don't recall any of them compalinign about massive listening fatigure after such a short period.

I did very briefly switch to my Marantz which I knew would warm up and mellow out these due to their high output impedance. That combo wouldn't give anybody a headache at least. I will try to give that pairing more of a listen tomorrow, but, while not headache inducing, I think I traded one set of problems for another. That integrated amp is really good (to me) with my HD 600 I think because of the Senn's higher impedance. But with the lower impedance Elears it seemed just too bassy and loose. But at this point I am not thinking too well. Will try again tomorrow and will try Marv's EQ circuit as well.