Aqua Hifi La Scala MKII & La Voce S2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Gravity, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. Gravity

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  2. Greg121986

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    I am going to re-post my impressions here. In the interest of transparency I will add this preface. I purchased the Vinshine Audio DAC from @alvin1118. We discussed the opportunity for me to be the USA distributor for this DAC and other future Vinshine products. Unfortunately for me this arrangement fell through only due to lack of capital available for me to invest and maintain a reasonable amount of inventory. As such, I do not receive any direct compensation for sharing my thoughts on the Vinshine DAC and I am not associated with Vinshine Audio. My thoughts are based solely on my desire to find a great R2R DAC.

    TL;DR of the below text, The AQUA La Scala MKII was only a little bit better than the Vinshine DAC where its sound stage was more clearly defined with better instrument separation. Considering the price differential I would not trade my Vinshine for a La Scala MKII. The La Scala had an issue with USB causing audible clicks and pops. I'm assuming this was worked out by replacing the USB module. Also, I have some photos but I am not sure how to upload them.

    I spent some time at my local Hi-Fi shop with my Vinshine DAC-R2R REF (About $1,600). This is not really a review, just a brain dump of my thoughts. I listened to a lot of DSD and some high-res PCM files fed by an Aurender N10 ($8,000) with Shunyata Venom USB ($125). A couple songs were streamed in 16/44.1 from Tidal. This DAC sounds really nice with DSD so I find myself listening to a lot of it. The stereo was setup with my personal favorite components which I have spent a lot of time with. Focal Sopra 2.0 speakers ($14,000), Constellation Audio Inspiration 1.0 preamp ($9,900), Constellation Audio Inspiration Stereo 1.0 amp ($11,000). Cables were Analysis Plus Ultimate Power Oval ($1,975), Solo Crystal Oval balanced interconnects ($913), and Solo Crystal 8 speaker cables ($3,400 in this length). The Constellation Audio stuff was connected via their "direct" interconnection method which bypasses an additional gain stage from the power amp. I think this was an MIT interconnect but I did not pay close attention. Everything electronic is supplied with spic-n-span, squeaky-clean power from a Shunyata Hydra Triton V2 power conditioner ($6,000 ish) The other two DACs were plugged in with Shunyata Alpha power cables. I put Magico Q-Pods underneath the Vinshine not because I thought it would be helpful, but because they were sitting right there.

    DAC competition was MSB The Analog DAC with analog volume control (not used in this situation), upgraded power base, and premium quad rate DSD module. In this configuration it comes in at an MSRP of $12,580. The second DAC compared was the Aqua La Scala MKII DAC ($6,600). This one is very new to me. I'd only heard it once before. However, I've spent a lot of time with The Analog DAC from MSB, as well as their Platinum DAC IV, and even a brief listen to the Select DAC II.

    The Vinshine DAC-R2R REF provides a sound character that only a resistor ladder DAC can achieve. There is simply no comparison to a delta-sigma DAC. To my ears and from my experience, an R2R DAC gives a much more believable sound. The timbre of instruments is more natural, the imaging is more realistic, and the overall presentation sounds more like there are real people playing real instruments in my living room. That is what I want from a high end sound system. I included the pricing of the pieces used in this comparison because I feel that the DAC-R2R REF gets me very near my desired level of "believable" for much less than you would expect. Was it better than the MSB? Not at all. Was it better than the Aqua? Not quite, but I would not give up the Vinshine for the Aqua. Despite its relatively low price, the Vinshine DAC-R2R REF was very comfortable to step up to the plate next to these heavy hitters.

    The DAC-R2R REF has great timbre, excellent timing, and very good sound staging. However, the MSB Analog DAC exhibited superb sound staging and even better timbre. The Aqua La Scala had a little bit better sound stage than the DAC-R2R REF, but otherwise did not do much for my tastes. The La Scala had a more clearly defined sound stage with better instrument separation than the Vinshine, but it was a small difference. There are also some issues with its USB implementation. While the Vinshine did not win this shootout, I never expected it to. I only wanted to reinforce the fact that I've found a DAC that will give me that excellent "believable" sound that I have been searching for. The other DACs present the R2R sound, but with just a few more tweaks and improvements at a substantial cost premium. The results of this shootout allow me to conclude that I need to trade my Focal Electra 1028 Be2 speakers in for Focal Sopra 2.0. [​IMG] Now I only need to decide the right color.​



     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  3. bengo

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    @SKiring did a good write up in two posts starting here

    I have heard both La Voce S2 (2x PCM1704 version) and La Scala II (4x PCM1704). Hope the impressions below are helpful.

    La Voce S2:
    Poor bass quality and extension.
    Sometimes sounded a bit thick in the bass/mids region. Wee Beth Orton starts to sound a bit like... Adele :D (I'm not a fan)
    Really rolled off treble.

    Good stuff: It does have something relaxing / natural about it which is intriguing.

    Too many compromises at the price. Probably due to the PCM1704 plus NOS? I'm not familiar with that chip though, just reading comments from others.

    La Scala II:
    Better but still not great bass.
    Thickness is fixed.
    Treble extension much better but still behind oversampling DACs. Can be OK / good thing if you like that signature.

    Good stuff: The magic naturalness thing is enhanced too. This sounds amazing with cello. It can also sound very 'direct', like a layer is removed between you and the music. Need direct comparison with another good DAC to confirm this. Might be a NOS thing.

    @SKiring wrote this is the best PCM1704 implementation. Not perfect but much easier to live with. Despite the big price difference, I think this is way better value than La Voce S2. Let's be clear, it's not good value in absolute terms though.

    I will be getting a loan of La Scala II soon and will compare with Yggdrasil.

    The La Scala Optologic (discrete resistors) is also interesting, and probably sounds better, but yet more expensive again. Too expensive for me right now most likely, regardless of the number of unicorns it may have. It can also be done as a factory upgrade later.
     
  4. Thenewerguy009

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    Can't wait to hear your thoughts when you do get it home.
     
  5. ufospls2

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    I just got a La Voce S2 in today, and so far I'm really enjoying it. I'm not noticing a lack of bass presence, but I am using it with the Wells Audio Headtrip, and Abyss Phi, both of which are good in the bass region, so maybe it is balancing out? Not sure. I was really going for a warm-ish full bodied sound with my set up, and I think I have achieved that. The treble isn't too rolled off for me, and I'm hearing clarity I haven't heard before with my set up. I don't think it is overly warm and syrupy sounding, which I've read can be a problem with the PCM 1074. So far, I'm really enjoying it :)

    [​IMG]
     
  6. bengo

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    It's not terrible, just overpriced, the La Scala II is so much better in many ways - if you can get hold of a used one that is better value to me.

    The upper/mid bass is there, it's not bright or lacking bass in the overall balance, but the extension into lower/sub bass is notably missing compared with Yggdrasil, and the bass is in general a bit uncontrolled or tubby.

    PS: did not know these come in black too! Looks amazing
     
  7. ufospls2

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    I got a pretty decent used deal, and its in mint condition, so I figure I did ok. I'm not sure I would pay retail for one. I'd like to hear the La Scala Optologic, but that is way out of my price range, so I'm content for now. Who knows in the future I guess.
     
  8. bengo

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    Well, enjoy it! They both are nice although flawed, and seem to do something quite unique. Treble was the main issue with La Voce for me but once you get past that it's a nice laid back sound.
     
  9. ufospls2

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    I'd like to add to my initial impressions of the La Voce, which, due to an issue with the XLR outputs, I returned to the original owner. He was very helpful and refunded my money immediately, which I thought was honourable and gave me some faith in the "Audiophile" community. There are still good people out there :)

    I think some of my initial positive impressions may have been due to the fact that the La Voce was the first desktop sized DAC I had personally owned, and listened to for more than an extended audition. Would I still recommend the La Voce? Yes, but only if you get to hear it first and find it is what you are looking for, as I could see it being the wrong choice for some people. I thought the treble wasn't too rolled off for my ears, but in retrospect, perhaps it was. The reason I mention this is due to one song, and one piano strike in particular within that song. Usually this piano strike (well, e-piano) is piercing, regardless of the gear you are using, its just an overly loud strike, and is an outlier within the song. It's how it was played, not an issue with mixing, mastering, or listening gear.

    With the La Voce, it wasn't too hot....not at all. 3 seconds into the song after the note, I said to myself "hold up.....that was weird" and went back and re-listened to it. Sure enough, it was far softer than I had ever heard before, on any gear. I volume matched as best I could without any special gear, and tried the same passage of the song with my other DAC's, and it was back to being piercing. This was the single biggest difference I have ever noticed when switching between DAC's.

    It just goes to show how inexperienced my ears are, and why I now try to put a note in all my impressions noting said inexperience. Perhaps I was experiencing new toy syndrome, or perhaps I was hearing a "good" DAC (vs. smaller USB powered options) for the first time. I'm not sure.

    With all that being said, I do still think the La Voce might be the right DAC for some set ups and some peoples ears. It had a seemingly musical and sonorous quality to it, but looking back on it, likely isn't the last word in terms of resolution. I still think it wasn't as warm and syrupy as I had expected it might be given some of the PCM 1074 impressions I have read in the past. With that being said, compared to some DAC's I have heard, it was a bit warmer.

    I hope that helps some people looking for impressions on this DAC. I couldn't find too many when I was searching for them.
     
  10. bengo

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    Sorry for the long overdue update to my impressions of La Scala. I had this at the office for quite a few days comparison with my Yggdrasil. When I returned it, the dealer kindly also allowed me to borrow the Optologic version for a day or two, so I heard both versions back-to-back.

    La Scala (PCM1704):
    This version uses 4 DAC chips so it is hardware balanced, similar to Yggdrasil, and therefore the balanced XLR outputs may sound a little better than RCA single ended. Due to the limitations of my equipment, I used single ended for all DACs throughout.

    In terms of tonal balance, Yggdrasil seems pretty flat/neutral, while the Aqua emphasizes the lower and middle midrange. This gives a more thick / solid / meaty impression with more body, while the Yggdrasil is left sounding relatively leaner / polite. The thickness and slight boost works really well with strings in particular, really beautiful.

    One interesting thing I noticed, which seems to be fairly unique to this DAC compared with Yggdrasil and others: a change in the balance of the vocals (usually central) vs instruments. Clarity and intelligibility of lyrics (and quieter sounds in the background) was significantly better on the Aqua, while Yggdrasil leaves things a little veiled and too diffuse / fuzzy. The vocals were also a little in front, where they should be, rather than buried in a wall of noise. The flipside is that Yggdrasil had more depth and air, while the Aqua was very flat with headphones, perhaps problematically so. On guitar rock, the Aqua has noticeable extra bite / edge / rawness, which is usually a good thing. This may also be related to the midrange emphasis, or a NOS thing...

    I found the Aqua a tiny bit more natural sounding overall in most cases vs Yggdrasil. Some of this may be due to the NOS treble roll-off softening "sharp edges" in the upper treble.

    Comparing dynamics or punch, it's clear the Yggdrasil is significantly ahead here, although the Aqua on its own does not sound flat or compressed per se. It may be that the extra high frequency information from oversampling is important to the impression of dynamics (Wikipedia).

    La Scala Optologic:
    Since PCM1704 is no longer in production, Aqua was forced (more-or-less) to develop an alternative. Like Audio GD they have opted for a discrete resistor implementation, rather than using a DAC chip. The Optologic version is I think single-ended, presumably to keep the parts cost from ballooning (2x less resistors, etc). So the other notable differences are: redesigned output stage, with transformers for the XLR outputs; different stock tubes - NOS Telefunken ECC81 - of course, you can buy these fairly cheaply and roll them yourself.

    Listening to the Optologic version back-to-back it was clear that there are very small improvements in several areas. I got the impression of a slightly sweeter overall sound, better defined and more extended bass. It still has a slightly thick and mid-centric sound, but definitely less so than the PCM1704 version. The shallow head-stage seems to have improved and now is roughly on a par with Yggdrasil.

    Overall, the already small gap with Yggdrasil was closed even further. Unfortunately dynamics seem not to be improved at all from the cheaper version.

    Short Summary:

    I did seriously consider whether I should sell my newish Yggdrasil and replace with La Scala, despite the much higher price even for an ex-demo unit. Even after extended A/B it was not an easy decision for me. This should give an idea how much I liked it, as the Yggdrasil is one of the very best DACs out there. Yggdrasil or either La Scala are a very natural and enjoyable listen.

    I would say either of these DACs is on a similar level to Yggdrasil - ahead in some ways, behind in others. Overall the decision may come down to cost, local availability and personal preferences, rather than sound. Also, it may make more sense to try different amps, speakers, headphones or tubes rather than rolling DACs to get a certain sound signature.

    If you are going to buy one, unless you have a big budget I would not bother with the improved Optologic version, and maybe try to find a used or ex-demo unit. Like Schiit DACs, they can be factory upgraded later. The Yggdrasil (or Gungnir Multibit) is of course substantially cheaper than either and so gets the value award by default.

    As always, I would recommend strongly to listen to gear yourself first, particularly in this price range...

    Methodology
    Levels were matched using a sine wave, within the limitations of the Phonitor VUs.

    Chain was:
    Louder DAC > Schiit SYS (for level compensation) > switch box
    Quieter DAC > switch box
    switch box > SPL Phonitor > Audeze LCD-XC

    Sorry, no speaker comparisons.

    Most music in FLAC 16/44.1.
    Used the Phonitor crossfeed and/or mild bass boost (with DEQ2496) at times.
     
  11. Clemmaster

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    Great write up!
     

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