AudioQuest Nighthawk

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    Little bit of trivia.. Apparently the Carbon version is being released because the liquid wood finish wasn't popular in the 'States. However, the Liquid Wood finish has been popular in the UK (and tested as preferred to Carbon finish).
     
  2. Armaegis

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    Oh was the Carbon not already announced? I saw that last week in the shop. I believe that will be the default finish on the NightOwl. Personally I prefer the liquid wood finish. The carbon finish just looks like cheap plastic to me.
     
  3. Mdkaler

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    I like the liquid wood finish, but I can see how the glossy plastic look make it not so popular.
    Will report back if I find the Nightowl at Best Buy later. I think I have an idea how the Nightowl might sound, as I covered up the vent to block out ambient noise lol.
     
  4. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    Update from AudioQuest (More info on Nov 1.)

    The new Carbon finishes most definitely cost more to produce versus the four clear coats on the current NightHawks. The new finish is an automotive-inspired process that consists of multiple layers of primer, base coats, and clear coats—all automated with a final hand-polish for quality control. We buy the same paint Porsche uses on the Panamera called "Carbon Gray Metallic." It's a near-black shade with a subtle hint of golden warmth. We call the new headphones "Carbon" because of the finish, not because of the cable. In our cable lineup, we reserve "Carbon" for digital cables only.

    The earcups are still made the same way from liquid wood. The wood aroma remains.

    NightHawk wood will be discontinued. If you are thinking about buying a NightHawk, I suggest waiting until after our announcements next week.

    NightHawk and NightOwl sound very similar. The goal was for them to be as close as possible. But they are just different enough that I believe it is worth listening to both before deciding if you want one or the other.

    The headphone stand is black so that it will match anything. We might (BIG might) do other colors/finishes in the future.

    New pads : I'm trying to get those out as soon as possible! Ideally before the holidays. They seem to be preferred by nearly everyone who has tried them internal to AQ and external.
     
  5. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    Hmm I found the NightOwl mids to be considerably more forward than the Nighthawk. At loud show conditions volume they were a bit much for me tbh. Perhaps ok in quieter conditions but remains to be seen.
     
  6. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    Deleted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  7. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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  8. Hekeli

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    Grabbed 299€ black friday deal. I like for the price. Pro's and con's all in this thread. Comfy, warmness, some mids lacking, doesn't congest like HD600, but surprisingly little pressure/slam capability down there (my tuned HD800 was completely another beast... not that NH is bad, for some reason I was expecting real wham..). With some EQ and perhaps the upcoming pads these will be great for my random secondary use.

    edit: Two years later edit... :D 200€ black friday deal for Nightowl Carbons... I like them much more! Bass/slam is there and not so sharp his.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  9. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

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    Grabbed one of these and a Fulla 2 for the office...
     
  10. Grahad

    Grahad Guest

    I still don't understand the 45 deg headphone jack trend...
     
  11. chj

    chj New

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    Thanks for an interesting review and analysis. I have further analyzed the actual cause of the "error" with these headphones, and I also have a suggestion for how to listen to them and get an impression of the lurking, but definitive qualities of the mechanics of this headphone. Here: http://www.noach.one/blog/audioquest-nighthawk-dissapointing-headphone/
     
  12. Jackork

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    I wonder how Nighthawk would respond to EQ-ing, considering its low distoration. Have anyone tried it?
     
  13. billbishere

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    Jus realized this is wrong thread, sorry guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  14. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Big Necro on this thread... @M3NTAL sent me his Nighthawk headphones recently for a teardown / investigation about what can be done with them. I've always felt the drivers inside to be supremely capable, but the implementation left much to be desired.

    First, EARS measurements of the stock headphone with leather pads (white) and suede pads (red):

    upload_2021-8-28_14-49-17.png

    50db y-axis:

    upload_2021-8-28_14-50-15.png

    Now some teardown pics -

    baffle/driver assembly and cups:

    [​IMG]

    now the back side of the baffle/driver assembly, with and without the stock fuzz

    [​IMG]

    driver close-up on the front and then with light shining through to see how the vents are laid out underneath that paper damper:

    [​IMG]

    Here's a Foster driver (used in some Denons, Emu, Fostex) , look familiar? The Nighthawk magnet is about as large as the common Foster driver, but not as large as the TH900 magnet. I think an N50 is used in Nighthawk, vs N42 in common Foster driver, double-size N42 in TH900 driver, or N52 in ETA driver :

    [​IMG]

    Here's a measurement with the cups and fuzz entirely removed to see how much of the sound comes from cup interactions vs baffle design. With cups in white, without in red -

    upload_2021-8-28_14-57-1.png

    Here's what the measurement tells us:

    1. Cup stuffing mods will likely do very little to 'fix' the massive low mid hump... at least insofar as the baffle remains unchanged.
    2. Cup shape/design does not have a substantial effect on the general tonal contour (makes sense, there is a direct exit path from the cups to the outside directly behind the driver through the criss-cross grill piece, it's semi-open in the back).

    I imagine if the baffle vents (covered by paper on the rear side and felt on the front side) were opened, the cup interaction would have a much more substantial effect. Given the comparative curve above, I can somewhat infer that the cup reflection through the baffle vents is what causes the mild dip at 1khz relative to the cupless measurement (on Fosters, this same dip behavior is in the 500-800hz range depending on the depth of the cups used). Opening up those baffle vents will likely make that dip even greater when the cups are put back on, which is a bit of a 'miss' relative to the problem areas in the stock tuning. From what I know about drivers with this venting scheme, the boost in the 3khz area is likely due to reflection off of the rear grill piece into the central magnet vent. Here's a cupless measurement with a finger over the center rear magnet hole to emphasize a similar effect in red (white curve still stock):

    upload_2021-8-28_15-7-5.png

    Surprise surprise, the Genesis and Foster drivers behave in the same exact way...

    Baffle adjustments may be the next thing to test given the felt should still have some frontwave pressurizing effect on its own... but also I'm much more interested to see how these drivers would do in a different baffle / enclosure entirely (Genesis or Supra X Nighthawk!?). However, the drivers are going to be a pain to take out - seems like some type of goopy rubbery adhesive is holding them in place. Might not be possible without a dremel.

    More soon.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  15. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Picking up from the above post -

    stock in white, cupless with one baffle vent opened in red

    upload_2021-8-28_15-20-37.png

    cupless with two baffle vents open in white, three open in red

    upload_2021-8-28_15-23-51.png

    Already I can tell that the optimal baffle choke with the front felt still in place is with two rear vents wide open (paper covering removed). Any more open and we start to lose linearity in the sub regions vs the lower mids (as you can see in the red curve above with three rear baffle vents open). The low mid emphasis is the bother for me here, not the bass. So I'll continue on with two open and see what else can be done.

    Pic of two rear baffle vents open:

    [​IMG]

    edit - this is already a WAY better response than stock and honestly quite listenable. next step is to either figure out a cup stuffing arrangement that wont aggravate the current response, or to find a way to wear them as-is... or that transplantation I still want to do. I'm already impressed, though.
     
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  16. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    This seems promising. For the price these goes these days, it could very well be worth the time to mod them. I do like the Fostex drivers.
     
  17. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    With a light adhesive felt patch over the rear of the driver and some pad cavity perforations (made using a leather hole punch) - I think we're about done!

    [​IMG]

    upload_2021-8-28_15-53-38.png

    My rig does under-report the 2k area and over-report the 3k area a bit, so I think the mids are probably a bit flatter than they look. This sounds great! classic bio timbre, nice mid-treble presence. Great extension on both ends. Very nice.

    If only there were a headband. Next step will be to figure out how to stuff the cups in a way that won't aggravate the response on there now if/when I put them back on... which will prove difficult with the more open baffle scheme I have now bleeding into the back. That might be a project for another day, but I'm very happy with how far these have come in a short time. If I can get them to sound good with the cups back on, I don't think there's a need for transplanting them after all :)
     
  18. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Same as above, but with empty cups put back on (red) vs cupless (white)

    upload_2021-8-28_16-0-58.png

    This proves my theory about the 1k dip coming from cup interaction here.

    Damn, stuffing may be easier than I thought... putting the stock fuzz back on may be enough - coming soon
     
  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    [​IMG]

    Taking a page out of the GenG playbook and using a precut open cell foam ring that's basically the perfect size as a one-stop stuffing solution, and...

    upload_2021-8-28_16-17-56.png

    For what it's worth the upper mids do sound a bit hot coming up after that 1k dip this way (may suit some people's preferences as-is this way though)... so I removed the felt patch from here (given that the rear grill does give more reinforcement in the same area) and added one more set of pad perforations to see if I could make the 1-3k area a bit flatter. Then put a piece of lighter blue foam in the middle directly behind the driver to try to cut the difference in low mids with vs without felt patch and tighten up the decay in the bass.

    [​IMG]

    Result below:

    upload_2021-8-28_16-38-55.png

    Still a bit upper-bassy but maintains the richer timbre and character a bit more. I think a pad with more consistent and smaller perforations would be the ticket, but alas pad rolling on these is near impossible due to the weird shape. Regardless, we've come a long way vs original stock:

    upload_2021-8-28_16-39-48.png

    Not sure if this is really better or worse than with the felt patch... but I think I'll live with where things are now for a bit til I get the greenlight to do more invasive tweaks. I can send those foam pieces to any nighthawk owners who want to try this out for the cost of shipping + a little beer money :)

    edit - I think the mids can still be improved by using a driver edge vent covering that's more obstructive than the stock paper filter. With @M3NTAL 's permission, I'll tear it off and try some micropore tape instead.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  20. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Hey man, looks like you are diggin' in. Have fun and do what ya feel like doing. I think the drivers are neat and possibly a platform driver for building around. A HP-3/TH-900 driver alternative. Thank you for giving this project a go!
     

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