Campfire Audio Andromeda Review: Holy Cow, This is a Dream, Awesomesauce!

Quiet thread lately.....

For the fellow ZX2 owners...... I've had mine for three days now and while I have not spent hours critically listening I've logged a few hours while multi tasking and a little time giving it 100% of my attention. You were all right, the ZX2 is a great pairing with the Andros. I like the overall tone and with it's subdued bass (relative to going through my Mojo/Hugo) and overall I am pleased. With all of the audio enhanements disabled there is a slight hiss but it's not horrible. That said, I am curious if my expectations were too high with this being my first DAP. I love the convience of having my entire music collection, soruce, amp and dac all in one hand, BUT I was expecting a signicant (yes, that's a subjective word) improvement over the direct analog connection to my iphone SE.

From an overall SQ standpoint, layering, presense, sound stage etc etc, does the ZX2 wipe the floor with the iphone and I need to spend more time listening or should I have simply expected a modest improvement over what is a surprisingly good pairing to start with? For $1,100 I was expecting to hear the Andros like never before, and while they do sound great, I thought they sounded great with my iphone too. For the record, I can't say that about any other headphone/IEM I own or have owned.

I am confident that this is the right DAP for the Andros after trying several, I'm just trying to align my expectations with what a DAP will deliver vs a solution built from separate components. There is an improvement over my iphone, but not what I was hoping for.....

 

Welcome to the world of 1% gains. Moving from iPhone to ZX2 is prolly more than a 1% gain, but it's an iterative improvement, not a revolutionary one.

The more experienced reviewers here really try to temper expectations about relative differences and improvement when moving from component a to component b, but it's easy to read "ZOMG unbelievably better" when someone means "better if you are listening very critically". Not saying you did this @EndGameSearch, just sayin' it's easy to do in general.

I can say getting even an entry-level 2-channel speaker setup has been a "ZOMG unbelievably better" level of improvement over headphones in some ways.

 

It's definitely more than 1% but not as signticant as I was hoping so I likely got caught up in some of the reviews. None the less, it's a great DAP and overall I'm very pleased. I think most of all I'm just surprised how good the adros actually sound off my iphone. I don't plug anything directly into it.

To your point though, I would love a nice 2-channel set up but with a 4 and 8 year old running around the house I'll stick with the solidtude of phones. Listening to a little Dvorak right now though and loving the peace and quiet in a hotel room. Could be worse.

 

I think if you give the ZX2 more dedicated listening time, you'll hear the differences more readily when you go back to the iPhone. That being said, the 6s and earlier iPhones do sound quite good with the Andros, but I think the ZX2 just gives you more that makes you feel like you're there.

 

I think I remember reading on this site somewhere that the zx2 performance is affected by burn-in, disabling sound enhancement, TRS vs TRRS* and default Sony player app vs 3rd party Android apps** (at work, don't have time to search. Edit: Try this old thread).

As Merrick said, just listen solely to the zx2+andro over a few weeks, maybe play around with everything and then report back afterwards. Maybe after extended listening you may be able to make a better conclusion. Most importantly enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts and don't worry about anything else. Plenty of options to do afterwards.

BTW quiet threads are good threads if the signal to noise ratio is high.

Edit -* would not bother unless you already got a 3.5mm TRRS cable for andro. Do not spend $$$ for that extra 1% improvement.
** Cannot find link to how 3rd party apps may use a different D/A conversation path compared to the default player. I may have alzhemier's.

 

Don't forget that the ZX2 "needs" 100h burn in, Sony themselves state it when you start the ZX2 for the first time.

Not sure if it really does something though.
But I remember that I also wasn't really wowed by the ZX2 in the beginning, but now that I'm used to listening to it, others sources definitely sound far worse. Maybe the burn in indeed does something

 

Thanks all....

I'm definitely going to keep the ZX2 and do like the way it sounds and agree that "more time" is typically a good path forward with new audio equipment. I typically struggle when A/B testing equipment and then trying to articulate the difference in SQ. In general, it simply comes down to a feeling where one piece of equipment is able to provide a sense of deeper engagement and thus enjoyment. The andros are wonder and the ZX2 is a good match so I'll let my ears and brain become accustomed to the sound over time.

Regarding burn in.......... From a purely logical standpoint, as I understand electronics this rarely makes sense to me. On a tube amp I can understand it and even on a larger solid state setup or actual speakers, but with a DAP I can't wrap my head around how a burn in period could make a noticable change to sound quality. If it did, and I was the manufacturer I would "burn" the equipment in so it sounded best day one. To me it seems like a nice way to tell people to give things time and not make snap decisions (while youre still under the return period Each to his own though. I'm not trying to start a debate on burn in. I'm in IT and sell IT services but I'm not an engineer with a background to backup my view here.

Sound enhancements - I'm curious if there is a dffierent verision of the software running on my brand new ZX2. Going back through various threads I saw two schools of thought. 1. Completely disable the audio enhancements ( settings > apps > all > sound adjustments > disable ) 2. Leave it running under the "all" tab but kill the process in the "run" tab ( settings > apps > running > sound adjustments > stop ). With option 2 it was suggested to turn on "ClearAudio+ first which raises the gain, turn it off which turns off the processing and clears up the sound but maintains the increased gain, then stop the running process while leaving it in the "all" tab. Some claimed this provided a better sound. To my ears the sound is the same with optin 1 or 2. With one you are preventing the app from showing at all and with 2 the app runs but the process is disabled.

Either way I try it, there is a HUGE difference when ClearAudio+ is on or off but no noticiable difference beyond that. Coming into this new, if I hadn't read previous threads I would think all you need to do for the best sound is to make sure "ClearAudio+" does not have a check mark next to it. You then still have the option to apply EQ if you wish. To my ears, disabling "sound adjustments" all together does not further change the sound. With "ClearAudio+" on the sound is horrible. With it off things are greatly improved. With the app completely disabled it sounds the same to me. Again, not trying to start a debate. Just curious if Sony corrected the issue knowing so many people were disatisfied with the sound.

 

My like was for this statement. Thumb is getting arthritis from scrolling through this Andromeda thread lately.

 

@EndGameSearch , my .01c addition: while ZX2 is prolly the best pairing with the Andros (I own one as well), the real value is snagging a very good but used ZX2. I got mine used for the equivalent of USD 450 last year (the Japanese no-cap version). So yeah, to generalize, there is a price point for everything in this hobby where value is undeniable (except maybe the AGD S-19, but I digress).

 

Reporting in... I think I finally found the ultimate solution to the "slight" harshness in the upper mid without killing anything else.





Buy these filters here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-filter-gum-never-rust-belt/1975223569.html

Request them to send the absolute smallest size possible (4mm?). You may have to trim off a bit of the edges, even, so that it doesn't obscure the 2 smaller ports.

Those who heard my Andro at the last meet know how they sound like with these filters on. If you don't have a problem with the treble, though, I wouldn't recommend this at all. With these on, Andro may have too much of that "HD650 sound" that it could be boring/smoothed over sometimes. But these are still better than the Shure screen guards.

Also not recommended with ZX2 at all due to them adding quite a bit more bass IMO (sounds like an extra +2dB to me), but for brighter sources like iPhone and AK120, the added bass is quite welcome.

Anyway, that's that. Hope it helps. I'm going back to listening.

 

Over the past two days I've spent 9+ hours listening to my Andromedas > IEMatch on Ultra > Chord Hugo 2 > Mac > Roon upsampling Tidal. Even though output impedance is roughly the same on the Mojo and Hugo, the increase of bass and decrease in brightness is much less with the Hugo. That said, the IEMatch on ultra brings them back to a near pefect tonal balance for my preference. After adding 3 - 4 dB between 4000 and 8050 they are pefect with no hiss what so ever.

Question.....

1. Has anyone tried ALO's reference 8 IEM cable?
2. If so, what would it do to the sound/tone etc?
3. Is it pointless to upgrade the cable if it will be running through an IEMatch?

I do not have a need for balance/TRRS so will stick with the 3.5. I could not find anything specific to the Andros with a quick Google search and sadly do not know how to search this specific thread. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

 

Try the search feature? - http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...a-dream-awesomesauce.2075/page-61#post-141897

 

Now that's embarrassing. Thanks.. I had assumed that would search the entire site and did not click on it for additional options.. Dunce award received with humility.

 

So, I should write a few words on this too before I forget. More cable comparisons. This time between the popular suspects:

ALO Audio Litz (stock, 8 SPC wires)
ALO Audio Reference 8 (upgrade, 4 SPC and 4 pure copper wires)
PWAudio No.5 (custom, 4 thicker pure copper wires)

Measured impedance: (note, just approximate, not exact since my DMM sux)
Litz ~ 1.1 ohm
Ref 8 ~ 0.7-0.8 ohm
No.5 ~ 0.6-0.7 ohm (probably same thing as Ref 8)

Ergonomics:
No.5 is best, period. It's softer than Litz and has no memory, best comfort.
Litz is decent, soft, but has slight memory, decent/good comfort.
Ref 8 is worst, stiff, has insane memory, somewhat comfortable if you make sure to bend it a lot.

Sound: (please note, I like HD600/650, Code-X, LCD-2/3 and generally anything that sounds like the opposite of an HD800 without dust filter on solid state amp, or DT990 on O2)

Litz is supernova bright to me no matter the source. On ZX2, it's "bearable" but still somewhat "ringy" sounding, has tons of BA signature, and I'm super allergic to that sort of thing, though I have gotten better compared to a few years ago. Stock Andro + Litz + iPhone = just kill me please.

Ref 8 retains Litz sound signature but anything past upper mid is a lot calmer sounding to me, and it basically is the "best middle ground" between "fast transients" and "warm/impactful" sound. Stock Andro + Ref 8 + right tips + ZX2 = pretty much perfect HD650 sound to me. Could be a bit dark but enjoyable. Andro is "doable" on iPhone for me with Ref 8. TL;DR: sounds like 6KHz EQed down by 12dB to me while everything else remains the same.

PWAudio No.5 is basically Ref 8 but more bass impact, body and warmth stay the same, and upper mid (4KHz?) calmed down even more. Makes iPhone sound closer to ZX2 without balls and half the details. But I'm exaggerating. Really, on my AK120, because of soft-ish bass impact (or at least softer than ZX2), I'd be hard pressed to figure out if I'm listening to Ref 8 or No.5... unless the track has some sibilance, then Ref 8 will tend to make it sound like it peaks up at >10KHz, while No.5 will just graciously roll it off and leave just an impression of "something sharp" having been there. On ZX2, the difference is more stark: Ref 8 = balanced, somewhat neutral-ish, and No.5 can potentially cause the sound to become far too dark if the track doesn't have much air to begin with. @brencho has a copper cable terminated to TRRS for his Andromeda + ZX2 that I got to compare against No.5, and basically, both cables sound almost exactly the same, with the TRRS output from ZX2 giving the other copper cable a slightly more "transparent" sound (not really apparent with bassy tracks since bass is too overwhelming), so I'm inclined to say the difference really is more the material used here. Or I could be going crazy. But No.5 + AK120 = pretty much perfect, smooths out the last little peakiness on AK120 and gives the bass a bit more body/oomph. Still doesn't turn my AK120 into a ZX2 but that's precisely why I love the combo. To me Andromeda + AK120 + No.5 = HD600 on a good tube amp, and Andromeda + ZX2 + Ref 8 = HD650 on an awesome tube amp. Okay, here's an audiophile buzzword in case you couldn't catch all that: it's organic-sounding.

TL;DR: I like No.5 with iPhone + AK120. I like Ref 8 with ZX2, but pure copper on ZX2 is more a "per case" basis for me. Maybe I just need to live without Ref 8 for a while. But fud! No.5's ergonomics are enough for me to want to just use it exclusively with Andro from now on. The others just don't compare.

So, hope that helps. Or at least it's confirmation that I'm finally going crazy over every little material that goes into an IEM cable, and you can confidently ignore me the next time I post my impressions. Heck, maybe I should get a silver-plated copper + gold-plated copper cable next just for kicks.

P.S.: special thanks to @zerodeefex for making me poorer! Dammit, man, you were totally right! I wouldn't want cables from any other company now that I have had the No.5...

 

one of the best days of my life. couldn't help it. blame @jexby

 

Thanks for saving me $300 Bill. I was close to pullng the trigger on the reference 8 until I read your impressioin on it earlier in this thread and this confirms it. I enjoy the HD800 sound but traded mine in for HD800S which I run off tubes or Hugo 2. So over time I have enjoyed my treble tamed down a bit but not do the level of the 650.

I've now tested the Andros with iPhone SE, MacbookPro, Mojo, Hugo 2, WA8, AK70, WMA1, ZX2, IEMatch and a new contender last night. Overall I am very plased with them running on Iphone SE, Macbook, IEMatch Ultra > Hugo 2 and the ZX2. The WMA1 was nice but I didn't have a balanced cable and lack of Tidal support killed that option. All of you that recomended the ZX2 were spot on. It really is a nice sound that grows on you. I wish it was a tad bit brighter but switching to Comply helped change the tone enough to suite me. Comply someitmes tame treble down even further with other rigs but in this case it dropped the bass enough to let the treble stand up a touch.

The surprise contender I tried last night was the Dragonfly Red. I know others had mentioned it but I really didn't consider it as an option at first. To my ears with my tips, it is very close to the ZX2 at a fraction of the cost. If you really critically listen and A/B between the two you can here a wider soundstage a little better layered detail with complex classical tunes on the ZX2 and overall it is the winner, but from a tone standpoint the Dragonfly Red is really nice. It tames the iphone treble down a little, which I wasn't aiming for but the increase in dynamics is worth it. Really a nice little DAC.

So after tons of trial and error, I'm sticking with the ZX2 and Dragonfly Red for ultra portable use. I appreciate the feedback you all provided throughout this thread. Very helpful and made this process even more enjoyable. (Andro > IEM Match Ultra > Hugo 2 > Macbook > Roon KICKS ASS as a transportable rig. Mentally I feel I have to be losing something with the IEMatch in the middle but with the level of detail retrieval from the Hugo 2 my 43 year old ears aren't good enough to hear it and it's a wonderful match).

FYI. With Mojo I would think an IEMatch would be a requirement with the Andros regardless of your tone preference. It's just too muddy in my opinion. WIth the Hugo 2 I don't think you need it. It's not nearly as bass heavy but I prefer it with the IEMatch for classical. Other genres probably do not benefit in the same way.

Thanks for the post Bill.

 

After I took the memory wire out of my CA Litz cable, I tried them with the Andros for the first time since getting the PW Audio Copper 28. I hadn't noticed any difference back then, but the Litz immediately sounded far too "sparkly" compared to Copper 28 (micro iDSD w/ iEMatch @High). I've been somewhat of a cable skeptic so I was quite surprised to hear this difference. Not Andro related, but the Litz (w/ 2-pin to MMCX adapter) gave Noble X more punch and liveliness compared to the stock cable.

I was too cheap to buy the PWA No. 5 and now regret it, as the Copper 28 has a lot of memory, though it's otherwise a great cable (almost zero "microphonics", very comfortable heatshrink ear hooks).

How are you bending it? Is it possible to reduce the memory by doing this?

Which cable do you prefer sound-wise with your modded Andros?

 

i would definitely agree with your findings btwn litz and #5, it's a damn fine cable! only thing is perhaps i'm used to the weighty oyaide/furutech 3.5 jacks on other cables, i found peter's house jacks are a little too "insubstantial"? anyhow just an observation.

got hold of used ZX1 and ZX2 for a comparison but allergies have stuffed up my ears the past few days ... fml