CanJam SoCal

Discussion in 'The Meeting Place' started by Bill-P, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Got a larger pic? It's very nice!
     
  2. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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  3. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    @BillOhio, did you have a chance to listen to Monolith Liquid Platinum ? Could it be another candidate to put between A Bryston DAC and HD800S?
     
  4. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I didn't listen to it but I think @elwappo99 did and was very complimentary of it, if I'm remembering correctly.
     
  5. kevnin

    kevnin #facetweeting - Friend

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    Anyone still here? I’m roaming around. I think the liquid platinum is going to be killer - it’s connected to a pretty crappy chain and still managed to be impressive. Alex said he has control over all the component choices so it’s not like monoprice can just decide to cheap out on them.
     
  6. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    I was thinking about walking back over. A few things I missed. You still around?
     
  7. kevnin

    kevnin #facetweeting - Friend

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    Yeah I’m at the massdrop table, redhead with white shorts and blue shirt.
     
  8. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    There were headphones? I don't really remember that many. Maybe that speaks about the headphones. Maybe that speaks about that last round of whiskey @JK47 got us all.


    The one unanimous decision we made was: We need more SBAF hangouts/meetups. We all had such a good time without any gear to listen to. We barely even talked about headphones.



    I think I was one of the SBAFers at the meet. There was one guy with a SBAF shirt and a hard shell case I said hi to. So whoever you are, say hi here too. Best thing I did at canjam was bringing my DAP/UERM/ hifiman he-6 with cables to run all of them SE/BAL. Anything below has the usual loud show caveat.



    Audeze - Mobius is the only thing worth mentioning. If you look at them purely as a movie/gaming headset, I think you'll have a lot of fun. The virtual stereo thing was a pretty fun thing to listen to, albeit there were some odd things about it. Bass tilted sound signature that had a bit of treble energy. But definitely fun. Unfortunately there was a huge line so I didn't spend too much time, or plug it into my music. Not a dedicated music can.


    Sennheiser - HD820 closed thing - Great looking. Again long line so not too much time. The immediate things that popped out were decreased treble and increased bass from the HD800. Not as resolving as the hd800.

    HD660 - I definitely see where they were going with this headphone. It definitely has more of a wow factor when you first put it on with the elevated treble. Both of these at their price points aren't on my list.

    UE - UERM remastered thing - I don't do many earphones, but love my UERM. Remastered sounds like a CD 'remastered' release. Hotter treble and boosted bass. Could be a universal/custom thing, but they didn't sound as resolving to me. UE18 - Pretty good. Great soundstage and a certain 'holographic' sense to the sound. More treble energy than the UERM. Not really enough to justify that kind of money for me.

    Sonarworks - Holy shit @Hrodulf came from Latvia. Great meeting you! Loved what this software is doing. I really enjoyed the HD800s with the plugin enabled. The only thing I walked away saying "i will buy this". Also that RME dac. Whew! Lovely lovely.

    Simgot - Didn't get to listen to their iems, but loved the looks. They have a new headphone et100? It's a planar dynamic @$1000. Fun sounding, not super resolving or open sounding. Maybe @500 they might have more luck with them. Releases in about a month.

    Focal - Clear sounded great. Definitely improvement over the elear. But I don't see them on my list at that price. They're not particularly stellar.

    Mrspeakers - The aeon open was very nice. Has a certain holographic sound (like my hifiman edition x). Not better enough to justify swapping. Voce - hard to tell. The room was so damn loud to really pick up any differences. More treble then the SR009, but I don't think it's ground breaking at the $3k price point.

    Cavalli - the Masdrop hybrid tube amp is just lovely. Not super resolving, but really clean sounding. A good amount of warmth that makes it a really easy amp to listen to. No hum with my UERM.
    Spark - $99 amp with a wall wart. For $99? A pretty good little amp. I can see this doing well. I got some weird distortion form it in the lower end.
    Liquid platinum? - Yea, this is good stuff. With the HE-6. Gah... If you've got a loud dac with a song that's been compressed and cranked up, yup. And it sounds lovely. Cavalli amps and the HE-6 are just a great match. But for songs that really have a large dynamic range, I don't think this is it. With IEMs you'll need a preamp in front of this. Barely moving the knob from off went from channel imbalance to too loud almost instantly. But, this is... wow. Great great stuff here.

    Neve Amp - Holy bejesus neutral.

    Guess I'm walking back. If anyone has requests.... post here
     
  9. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    @elwappo99 Nice write up!

    Can you, please, listen and share some impressions about the Meze Empyrean and the Final D8000?
    Thanks!
     
  10. Soups

    Soups Sadomasochistic cat

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    Even with craptastic show conditions, I'd be interested in feedback about the Focal Elex (at Massdrop table?). Especially in comparison with the Clears. Thanks!
     
  11. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Anyone hear the Atlas? I'm interested in a DD IEM, and as long as its not a bass monster, I am hoping to give it consideration.
     
  12. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    The two notable chains that I heard were the Dragon Inspire IHA-1 with Utopias and the Mr. Speakers AFO and AFC on the new Yggdrasil A2 on a huge Woo Amp. I had also been to the Schiitr earlier in the day and tried out the Lyr 3 on Ether C's and a pair of ZMF's.

    I'm relieved to say that I actually like my current chain of Eitr, Gungnir Multibit, Sonett 2, Ether Flow (in a very quiet living room) better than anything I heard while I was out. The holographic sound of the DNA Amp when combined with the Eitr (an RME 9632 card isn't as holographic as the Eitr to my ear) is more enjoyable to me than anything else I tried.

    I don't know if that Woo amp did the new Yggdrasil A2 justice and I might audition the Y2 on a different amp another time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  13. VonAtlas

    VonAtlas New

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    Very similar impressions. My Ether felt superior to the high end demonstrations. Fairly certain I heard some nasty distortion from the Woo amp at elevated volume.
     
  14. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    Day 2? FWIW, today was much less crowded. I could really sit at a table for awhile. Found myself spending more time with vendors I didn't know. I also became a bit more focused on "budget" stuff. I also noticed that show conditions seem to suppress my sense of treble and that headphones tend to sound less bright overall. Also found tonal balance was difficult to discern (maybe as a result) so caveat.

    Overall, I walked out again mostly disappointed. It seems the general trend for high end headphones is pushing the treble up to grab an initial 'wow' factor while also doubling or tripling the price.

    Liquid Platinum - Loaner? Brought my HD800 pair as a reference. Very Cavalli sounding. Punchy bass, great SS, detailed, and a hair of treble roll off maybe? One of the few gems I found at the show. I spoke with the gents from Monoprice for quite some time as well. They're willing to entertain an offer for a loaner tour, if we're interested (more on monoprice below). We might be able to get one going before the actual release date gets going as well. Only thing I can fault is the case, but I think a classic Cavalli case would cost more than their asking price.

    Liquid Spark - Didn't hear any issues with this today. At $99? Great pair with their monolith headphones. Didn't quite do the HD800 justice, but I think this is a great little amp. The $100 headphone amp market seems to be a bit congested, but it will be interesting to see where this lands.

    ::: Also got to see Alex. There seemed to be a sea of unfamiliar faces at these, but over the years, Dr. Cavalli is always there. Always a pleasure talking to Alex and get his perspective on how things have progressed over the years. Hope I get to run into him again at another headphone meet, but if not: Smooth sailing to you. You'll definitely be missed.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Campfire - Andromedas were lovely. A hair more treble energy and presence than I would like, so I could see them being a bit fatiguing. But great balance and clarity throughout.
    Headphone Cascade - Terrific build. Really solid. Pads are great. Sound? Bass heavy. Uncontrolled bass. Treble and midrange? I dunno, all I hear is bass.

    Schiit - Hey @SchiitFerBrainz ! Jot multibit is lovely. If a Modi/Magni is a good entry level benchmark, I thing the multibit jot could definitely land as a good bar for mid level. Also a great debate about happiness with... that giant guy that looks like Dennis Prager. Wait... was that?


    Audeze - Day 2 here. Far less people around the mobius and tables so I spent some more time here. Figured out how to turn off all the DSP stuff on the Mobius. I would like to reemphasize I said "gaming" headphone. FR on these is bizarre, hollow and just washed out. I think they'll measure really wonky.
    LCD-4 - There's a lot to like about these headphones, having owned the LCD2, LCD2c, and LCD3. Great tight bass, really clean sounding. But something about the treble was incoherent. Like a LCD3 where the treble was forced up. Also the LCD-X they had left me completely un-enamored where previously it was their headphone I liked the most.

    Beyer - DT1990 - Meh - Sounds like a mix between the DT990 and DT880 with a bit of refinement. Treble toned down.

    Dekoni - Another T50rp mod lineup? T50rp mk3 with some "mods" and 2 pairs of Dekoni pads. MSRP is at $300. Hard to say, but sounded more like the T50rp mk3 than not. I thought mrspeakers pretty well drained this market in 2012? At $200, maybe?

    Monoprice - Monolith headphones. Given the price points, I would say the 1060 and 1060c are much better than the 560/560c. They're interesting headphones. I thought the 1060 sounded overall fairly dark with heavy bass. I just read some reviews that said there was a major ringing in the treble, but I didn't hear that. 1060c also dark sounding, but with the high mids kicked up which gave it some life compared to the 1060. I could see the 1060's working out well for people who like modern music.

    Talked to these guys quite awhile (along with Alex who was there). They're paying attention to feedback and trying to improve their products. They also know people are modding their headphones and are keeping their headphones modder friendly.


    People to watch:

    "Advanced" - Releasing some new planar headphones and they've got a pair called "Alpha" @ $500. Light and comfortable. Great sounding planar that's a bit punchy in the bass. Tonality is a bit tingy and tizzy, but I think they're heading in the right direction with it. Plus a headphone that sounded decent at $500 seems like a bargain compared to the rest of the crap headphones. The not alpha headphone they're releasing soon was super bright and thin.
    Earphones are also interesting. They had some M5? that had a great open spacious sound, but unfortunately the overall frequency response was a mess. -
    Don't buy but watch these guys - Maybe something shows up.

    Simgot - I think I mentioned their headphones. Also a decent sounding planar magnetic @$1000, but I don't think they were much better than the HE-500.
    Don't buy but watch these guys - Maybe something shows up.





    Didn't spot the Final D8000 anywhere except that one guy who made his own styrofoam headband.... I didn't want to take his headphones. Meze Empyrean usually had a line to listen, but today I had some time. They're set at $3000. At $3k, I'm thinking about a Stax. That's my first impression.

    Build - Loved the look. The picture's color is off. It's a great copper tone on the back. The cup is partially open. Light, incredibly comfortable.

    Sound - Great. Lovely imaging, bass is a bit one toned, but also punchy (maybe not too much extension). Treble emphasized but also rolled off. I could see this being a really relaxing not fatiguing headphone. I listened with both their leather/pleather and velours. Velours sounded odd, and my brain had a terrible time trying to image. Great separation and also just clean sounding.

    At this price point, meh. At this price point, you better be doing an in person listen before you buy.

    [​IMG]

    Ran from the Elex at massdrop's table to the Focal Clear - Notes I wrote down: Elex vs elear - Elex has more treble, but also a really clean and refined sound.

    Clear vs Elex - Clear has more presence and treble. Faster decay, punchier bass, clearer imaging and sound stage. It sounds like the Elex with a small step to the Utopia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  15. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    Thanks for your impressions. They're super helpful, especially regarding the upcoming Liquid Platinum.

    Do you have any more thoughts about the Neve amp? I'm assuming it's the RNHP. I'm shopping for a new amp, and this has been on my shortlist. I haven't been able to scrape up too many impressions of it, so anything you have to say about it would be appreciated.
     
  16. Junki

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    As someone who loved his modded M1060, I highly appreciate that you pointed out you didn't hear ringing. I didn't in mine either, and I think it's sort of the luck of the draw with this one.
     
  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So... chiming in for a different perspective on the gears I listened to now. Not gonna mince words because... I'm gonna preface this: I'm hugely disappointed by the majority of the stuffs I listened to. Dunno. Maybe I got up on the wrong side of bed, had too much to drink on Saturday night, or whatever...

    Good stuffs:

    1. Cavalli Liquid Platinum: asked the man himself and tried to confirm this multiple times: yes, it's a balanced Liquid Crimson. To my ears: basically neutral and uber clean. DAC used (some Monoprice AKM thing) was basically garbage IMO (bright, harsh, closed in, cloudy in the bass, and there was some issue with it when I was listening to it, but for some reason, they continued to go with it. Sorry guys, I think you need to work on the DAC a bit more. Put my GO2A SE on the amp and it performed faaarrrrr better, so there's that). I really loved the way this sounds, even with an HD800. It has clarity, impact, and punch. Maybe a bit sharp in the upper mid somewhere, but I know the stock tubes used are Electro-Harmonix, and from what I can hear with MCTH, swapping the tubes out for something better will yield some interesting results. Also the SMPS is another good point to upgrade. Alex smiled when I mentioned the possibility of an "upgrade" by switching to LPS, so there's that.

    In short: it's a MCTH with far better clarity, and does remind me a lot of a super clean Liquid Crimson, minus the slight aggressiveness.

    Liquid Spark was also quite good, though the lack of a battery does sadden me a little. For $99, it's a pretty good compact amp thing.

    2. ZMF Atticus with velour pads: great, smooth, neutral-ish. Maybe a bit cloudy sounding but it could be because I was just using GO2A SE as the source, which I know doesn't have enough voltage swing for high impedance headphones and it just barely hangs in there with efficient planars, but hey... this was a pleasant surprise. Would highly consider this one if I was in the market for a high-end closed-back.

    And... that's it. Now, the bad stuffs. I usually don't like to write criticisms, but I think some of these warrant it because of the super bad value proposition:

    1. Sennheiser HD820: just... no. Honestly, I respect Sennheiser engineers a lot but... I honestly think they dropped the ball big time on this one. Maybe the tuning was approved while someone was like super drunk and he accidentally stamped "pass" while he really meant "fail." They should go back to the lab and work like an extra year on this or something. If this is final tuning, then... wow, damn, my respect for Sennheiser will take a nose dive. HE1 and HD800S had this "house sound" thing going on that already detracted me, but the HD820 is just... too far. And I wouldn't be this vocal about it if it wasn't... $2.5K. But it is freaking TWO THOUSAND AND FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS! I mean... what the...???

    2. Meze Empyrean: so, on the get-go, I thought the idea was cool but would pose some uniformity issue with the diaphragm being flexed/stressed differently at different points, but hey, they really did go along with it. I was surprised nobody tried to throw a physics textbook in anyone's face in this case (wink wink) but, well, crazy ideas gotta go along somehow. With that said, when I got to check out the headphone in person, I didn't even know what to expect other than that it's a cool idea. Here's what I heard: fairly neutral tonality, maybe slightly dark/rolled off, but they got the general idea right. Someone is a fanatic Harman curve fanboi here, which is not a bad thing. Midrange is definitely quite... okay, nothing stood out as being offensive. Bass was... okay, kinda boomy and bloomy, like pillow on the head, so I thought... hey, maybe it was my ZX2 or the PHA-1A being used to drive them because... well, I was too lazy to whip out the GO2A SE. So overall, not offensive, but honestly, not very impressive either. Also fairly closed-in sounding, too, so no imaging or soundstaging thing going on either. At least the idea worked. Then I was about to put these in the "good" section until I saw the price. Like... okay, HOLY f'ing SHIT IT'S f'ing TRULY GOING TO BE THREE THOUSAND f'ing BUCKS???? And I f'ing wrote "f'ing" three times in that one sentence!

    Just... NO! Like, are you kidding me??? $3000????

    At this point, my next audio purchase will most likely be my last. I'm burned out already by the price war of the headphone industry and honestly, I actually hope that Meze will FAIL with this concept now just so that other companies, including Sennheiser, will see how ridiculous they have become.

    3. 64Audio Tia Fourte: hm, I really like how clean the mid and treble is on this one. It's almost perfect to my taste, but then... we got to the bass, which is very cloudy and boomy. In fact, it's like Andromeda all over again: bassy with good mid and treble. Yeah, that's cool but like... we already have Andromeda, and Andromeda still images a bit better, with better soundstage and bass technicality. And actually, Andromeda is more neutral.

    But then.

    Then... I realize this one is like... f'ing... THREE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE YOU-ESS DOLLARS.

    WHAT. THE. f**k????????????

    Okay, I'm out...

    Rest of this is not really "bad" per se but kinda like... "not good" to me:

    4. Schiit Lyr 3 + Multibit DAC module: so this one is only here because I want to chime in a little on the hype train, not because I think it's really a bad thing. I used a modded HD800 with this, and... while it didn't really offend at all, it was also kinda odd sounding with my HD800. Whereas the HD800 typically sounds pretty wide and expansive with other gears, it was more... closed-in sounding, with some tunnel vision thing going on in this setup. Good depth and layering, but width was oddly compressed and so certain songs sounded almost like they lost the stereo image thing. Also the mid was a bit... bitey, but not anymore than the Jot and certainly not anymore than, say... the Liquid Platinum above, and I'm totally okay with this. It does add some good excitement with HD800. But then the bass was like... kinda cloudy and pillowy on this one. Considering the combo is priced higher than MCTH and Jotunheim, plus the positive feedback here, I was expecting to be blown away. Well, I guess... all I can say is that it's not to my taste, so this is more a case of me hearing something unexpected.

    5. Empire Ears Phantom + ESR + EVR: only mentioning these since a friend asked me to check them out, and they were just kinda okay to me. All of them had this lower treble peaky thing going on, that's very much a BA thing so maybe it's not really a problem per se with folks who are used to it, but... just for comparison, my Andromeda is now very well-burned-in (if you'd believe it) and sounds far more calmed down. The Phantom is lacking a bit of sparkle up top, so the bitey-ness of the BA drivers really annoy me, plus the bass was a bit... boomy, I think. ESR is a bit better since it's cleaner sounding all across the board, with enough bass body and extension. EVR to my ears was the best of the trio, and basically sounds like how I remember the first time I heard Andromeda, but with a bit less bass. EVR has some good potential, but I find myself wishing for a bit more soundstaging because at least Andro still has a fairly big soundstage (for an IEM), so there's that. Overall, I find that these are okay, but not really amazing. Probably more for treble lovers.

    And for the "undecided" stuffs: (not sure whether these are "not good" or "good")

    6. Campfire Audio Atlas: nice clarity with acoustic stuffs, kinda clearer sounding than Andromeda, and just a little bit more peaky, but not annoying to me. Then... anything with bass is just like... I could only hear bass. Also the fit is weird, so... there's that. But honestly, it's not that they are "not good" per se. Maybe for someone who would like even more bass and treble (basically a more V-shaped) Andromeda, this could be "it"? I do like them better than Vega. Except for fit, that is. The new fit is weird.

    7. Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000: I was expecting an ultra bright headphone but I put these on and actually went: wait... that's it? It's not really... bright or even annoying per se. "Tears in Heaven" didn't flare up. "Hotel California" didn't flare up. "Live in Tokyo" by Emilie Claire Barlow didn't flare up. The only thing "bright" about these is like... their bass is kinda weaksauce and pillowy, I guess, but otherwise, the upper range is quite decent and well-tuned. Light-footed is how I'd describe them, actually. My modded HD800 does basically about the same thing but it's got slightly sharper transient, so there's that. The Audio Technica headphones are kinda... light and nice, even with weight: these are very very very light headphones. Super comfy to wear since they don't weigh like anything. For the first time the wings kinda work well here. Now... the price kinda keeps me from saying these are "good" though honestly, I do feel they are decent. Put these on the right tube amp to add some extra warmth and bass impact, and clean up the sound (they were on a Cavalli Liquid Carbon, by the way), and I think they will perform quite well.

    So... with these being $2K, I almost put them in the "bad" section actually, but then again, it does have some nice things going for it, and it didn't lose out too much in imaging or openness compared to HD800 so... what the hey?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  18. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    @Bill-P If I could like multiple times I would. A real hoot to read. Thanks for the impressions.

    The lack of criticism I encounter in this hobby sometimes triggers my schizophrenic paranoia that everyone is either delusional or trying to scam everyone else in some sort of elaborate house of cards or Ponzi scheme, so reading your hilarious criticisms especially around value proposition was a breath of fresh air. Cathartic even.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  19. sacredgates

    sacredgates Audio-Technica's high priest

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    yes the wings of the ATH-ADX5000 work really well this time... because there aren´t any!
    (sorry, had to make this comment to live up to my avatar...)

    @Bill-P: would these have modding potential to become something special? For my taste they lacked body and weight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  20. donunus

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    Did anyone try the entry level campfire comet?
     

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