DAP discussion thread

I A/B'd a ZX300 and WM1A at the store a while back. The speed is just about the same to me, with WM1A being just a smidge smoother/faster. Might just be wishful thinking.

Now I'm spoiled by iOS as well. I do find myself mostly slightly annoyed by the lag when scrolling through a long list of artists, but aside from that, it's perfectly fine for me. I get over the UI quickly anyway because it sounds amazing.

Does anyone hear a faint high-pitched sound when using USB DAC of ZX300? It's definitely noticeable with SE out.

/start obsico.blogspot.com

Sound-wise (if anyone wants to know) I couldn't reliably tell a difference between ZX300 and WM1A with Andromeda using the balanced output on both.* WM1A might have a hair better separation and layering, very slightly better slam, a smidge warmer -- but again, might just be my wishful thinking or me forgetting to use the same digital filter on both. SE out of ZX300 is a muddy mess in comparison, but is more than serviceable after 90+ hours of burn-in and some light sound adjustments.

ZX300 definitely wins in size and weight, very convenient on the go. I wouldn't bring a brick that is WM1A with me outside or for use at the office.

/ends obsico.blogspot.com

* Test tracks: Touch, Doin' it Right by Daft Punk. Mushaboom by Feist. Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence (1996) by Ryuichi Sakamoto.

 

Currently Tidal Offline is still work in progress, only streaming is confirmed. Just wanted to clarify before the Kickstarter campaign ends. It's the same situation for the Onkyo DP-S1.

 

So I finally got a 4-pole TRRS cable for my ZX2 in the form of a Han Sound Zen 4-core. I wasn't expecting much difference/improvement, but was pleasantly surprised to find (with Andromedas):

• overall sound seems a bit "brighter", clearer, crisper, like a 'veil' has been lifted
• imaging/stage is a bit wider, more precise, particularly noticeable on binaural tracks
• bass seems a bit tighter and and initial attack sharper

Generous seasoning of the salty variety recommended while consuming these impressions, as always.

 

Just got confirmation that Hiby R3 and R6 are coming my way. Yay, finally.

 

So I did some research at the HF thread, and it seems like the only difference between the ZX300 and ZX300a is 64GB vs 16GB of internal memory. The A is a chinese version but the menu can be switched to English manually, and if not it can be rockboxed to English.

A lot of people report successful purchases from Joybuy (though often taking almost a month to arrive, and sometimes longer). The price from JB for the ZX300a, including a 20 dollar coupon for new accounts, is USD 359. The best price I see for the ZX300, from Accessoryjack, is USD 579.

Give the small difference in price between 200 and 256 GB mSD cards (USD 38 right now) on Amazon, this looks like a no brainer if you can afford to wait a little. And don't mind fiddling to get English up and running. I don't imagine any DAPs can compete at <USD 400.

My only reservation is that by all accounts balanced >>> standard output, which means new cable purchases and limitations in what IEMs can sound best with it.

 

Do you by any chance know how ZX300 comparest to Hiby R6? I ordered the latter a while ago but could use something more mobile for bike rides.

 

No idea. I've looked into the Hiby and it is well reviewed but it's got a bunch of features I don't need and was just launched so I have no idea about stability. Plus, I'm all about that Sony battery life.

 

Got the R6 SS version last week. Purchased it from Musicteck.com. Some initial thoughts:

Gears Used: See my Signature Below
Music App on R6: Default Hiby App

Let's First Address the Elephant in the Room - High Output Impedance (10 Ohm):

- Output Impedance of the DAP is 10 Ohm. So people eyeing this DAP to pair with your multi-BA IEMs beware. Depending on your IEM or headphone, you could experience anywhere from almost no change to, crazy skewing of Frequency Response.

- My single driver headphones and earphones (LCD-i4, 800S, 80S) do not seem to be impacted by the OI. But I will test further and report back later. Phantom is a 5-driver multi-BA IEM. Its FR itself seems intact for the most part. But its macro dynamics seems to be not that good. So it sounds kind of dull.

- Good News; No Hiss: My Phantom is a bit of a hiss monster. it hisses powerful DAPs and DAPs with high noise-floor. But it shows almost no hiss on the R6.

Build, UI and Usability:

- The device sits comfortably in my palm and it is fairly easy to access the most real-estate of the touch screen, except for the extremes. But the layout of the buttons can get a little used to and it may sometime require using your other hand. Mine being the Stainless Steel version is a bit heavy at around 285g or ~0.5 lbs. But if you have already owned heavy DAPs like LPG or 1Z or SP1000, this shouldn't be of any concern. If you prefer a lighter version, you have the choice of going with the Aluminum version which also costs about $70 less.

- The Android OS is very snappy (thanks to the high specs). SO far so good. I haven't seen any bugs or hiccups so far. The Hiby App also seems quite mature and gets the job done. I try not to pollute my DAP with other 3rd party apps that would start building crap and temporary files in the background. Battery life is around 10hrs I think. I didn't do a proper battery test. So unable to say that for sure at this point.

- Features include: Balanced Output with higher output power, USB-DAC, Line-Out, Digital Out via SPDIF Co-Axial and USB. Please note: Digital Out via USB is bit-perfect only via the Hiby App. If you want system-wide bit-perfect digital out, you need to use the co-axial port. Line-Out and Co-axial out share the same 3.5mm port. So you need a specialised cable to be able to do digital out via coaxial. There is one included in the package that has the RCA type plug on the other end. But if you need a 3.5mm on the other end to be able to use with Hugo 2 or Mojo, PM me and I will share some links.

- So, overall, the usability is very good and no complaints so far.

Sound:

- The sound of the R6 leans on the warm and smooth side of things. It isn't too gooey and veiled out, nor is it too articulated. In fact its details retrieval capability is very good, for its smoothness. But people preferring either a reference or lean or bright sound, may want to look elsewhere.

- Admirable technical performance given its warm and smooth sound. The soundstage is very spacious with excellent imaging. Very good resolution and transparency in the mid-range and excellent separation of instruments and layering (of course take all this with the price context, as it is not going to perform on the same level as your 1Z or SP1000 or the Hugo 2).

- Very good power and control. Has more than enough juice to drive the i4 without breaking a sweat even on SE. Nice full bodied mid-range and a linear treble with no glare. So it is a forgiving DAP. No real downsides to the sound at this point except that it can sometimes come across a bit smooth if you are someone who likes a neutral sound.

- Switching to Balanced gives you better transparency and a more spacious stage with better instrument separation and resolution.

Bottom Line:

- If you are looking for an Android DAP that has a smooth sound, to pair your single driver headphones, or to use as a digital transport, R6 may be a good option.

- Stay away if all your IEMs are multi-BA IEMs.

- Do I Like It? Yes, very much at this time. I have my reservations on Android due to my past bad experiences with it. I am still not sure how it will hod out in the long run. But so far, so good. As for the sound I was looking for something warm and smooth and forgiving to pair my i4, as my Hugo 2 did not play well with bright recordings. And the R6 fills that gap. I will be receiving the Sony ZX300 in a week and it will interesting to compare the 2 DAPs.

 

HiBy is getting ready to ship their R3, which is a smaller DAP with an OI <1 ohm. It looks like it is designed to be used for IEM's and as a complement the R6 in the product lineup rather than a downgrade or cheaper model.

I backed the Kickstarter campaign, and they are supposed to ship in the coming weeks. I'm interested to see how the R3 compares to the Shanling M0 for multi-BA IEM's.

 

For the nw zx300 is there still lag when using it in USB DAC mode? Or has that been fixed in a fw update. Read here and on HF about .5 to 1 seconds of lag.

 

any news on zx300?

 

Un-Burned-In ZX300:
The ZX300 I got was defective, as it failed to work as a USB-DAC and so I returned it the next day. So I got a total ear time of may-be 3-4hrs to compare it to the R6. Given the circumstance, my impressions below are based on a non-burned-in ZX300. I don't believe in burn-in when it comes to DAPs. But because Sony themselves advise 200Hrs of burn-in for the capacitors to settle in, and because I have heard so many owners say that the sound improves after burn-in, I do want to give the benefit of doubt.

UI and Reliability:
Until I got the R6, Sony's UI was my favourite, due to its reliability and snappiness. But R6's UI is more snappy and the bright screen makes the whole user experience a bit more pleasant than Sony's. But it is a close call between the 2 devices. That said, I constantly come across people reporting bugs and issues with their R6. Although my unit has not shown any major bugs, it does make me weary that something might go wrong anytime. And although my ZX300's USB-DAC functionality was problematic, I seldom see people reporting issues on the device. For that reason, Sony would be the more reliable device.

Sound:
TL;DR: R6 sounds better than the non-burned-in ZX300 in both Single Ended as well as Balanced (fortunately I had both 2.5mm and 4.4mm cable to try balanced on both the devices).

Headphones/IEMs Used: To remove the variability of R6's high output impedance from the equation, I used IEMs and headphones that don't seem to be impacted by the High Output Impedance: LCD-i4, IE80S, EN700Pro, HD800S and AFO.

ZX300's sound seems to follow the age old trick of slightly boosted bass and a sparkly treble to come-off as an audiophile device suited for the masses. What the device lacks is the micro-dynamics and macro-dynamics in the mid-range. It isn't soft sounding in the mid-range, but the lack of dynamics is quite noticeable. The bass although slightly enhanced to give the warmth and body, doesn't have a great impact. The treble while sounding quite detailed, has a tendency to be bright and ends up ruining the tone. It has a slightly forward presentation with a sufficiently large stage. The stage isn't large as R6, but it isn't intimate either (at least in the Balanced). But my main complaint about the device is, its tone is far from accurate, because of which it lacks a bit of realism. Overall I wasn't impressed. Its not that the device sounds poor. But for $600, I expected better sound. Once again, please remember this is the impression I got off an un-burned-in ZX300.

So, just in terms of sound, R6 has the upper hand as it has a better stage, better separation, better dynamics and most importantly, its tone is overall better. R6 also has the advantage when it comes to power and drivability of full-size headphones on Single Ended. I was able to try my full-size HPs only on SE on both the device and ZX300's SE just doesn't have the power to push the large drivers. But I would expect the Balanced on the ZX300 to do a better job as it is 4x more powerful on balanced than the SE.

Verdict:
Despite being the better sounding device, I find it difficult to recommend the R6 wholeheartedly. I am willing to trade that bit of sound quality for a more reliable device, which the ZX300 is. If you can find a used ZX300 for around $400-$450, that would be great. Or if you can stretch your budget, I'd recommend the Sony WM1A*. You can find used WM1As for $700-$750 these days. But I find the 1A bit large and cumbersome. ZX300 on the other hand is a dream to use due to its sleek hardware. I wish it was less tall and bit wider and had a bigger screen. Regardless, the form factor of the ZX300 is amazing. Also, the ZX300 works better with IEMs. Just make sure you get a 4.4mm cable** to take full advantage of the device.

* - I got to try a WM1A that had a total of 40Hrs on it combined. WM1A on 4.4mm Bal sounds better than the R6.

** - Don't buy Sony's 4.4mm cable. Its a cable of poor value and doesn't sound good. For the same price there are cables from other 3rd Party cable makers we could recommend based on your IEM and sound preference.

P.S: Right now, I am not buying the ZX300 again. But if my R6 were to fail at some point, I'd probably get the ZX300.

 

Just received my R3. This is with 5~ hours of use.

Off the bat it sounds pretty good. Won't go in depth due to lack of play and new purchase syndrome but it sounds musical and doesn't have any major noticeable flaws.

UI is logical and it is pretty quick for what it is. No major lags and DSD64 files play almost instantly. Perhaps a 300ms delay in album art to load when playing DSD. Flac and MP3 loads instantly.

Hibilink works perfectly. I really love this feature. Connects with my phone over aptx BT. I stream Spotify and tidal with ease. It sounds close to wired; perhaps a little treble energy is lost and smaller soundstage but that's it. There is little latency too; managed to watch YouTube on my phone and the audio syncs well enough for me to not be bothered. Streamed with a pixel 2 XL running Oreo 8.1.

USB DAC works fine on my macbook pro 15 2016. Somehow there's a bit more latency though, sometimes YouTube videos do not sync. Maybe will get patched in future update, maybe not depending if the USB clock can be optimised.

The screen is wonderful and gets super bright if need be. Great viewing angles and good colour. Resolution is a bit poor but it doesn't need high res.

Touch sensivity is a little iffy. Perhaps I got huge thumbs but some parts of the ui require multiple touches to get it right.

Build quality itself is wonderful though the aluminium chassis makes it incredibly light. Kinda feels cheap but it makes it nice and portable. Buttons feels snappy and responsive, though a little shallow.

Charge time is great, took 1.5hrs to go from 20% to full with a 2A charger.

Battery life so far has been alright. I'm 5 hours in playing throughout and I'm down from 100% to 55%.


That's my large shallow first take on the hiby r3. I'm glad I got it, and will make comparisons further on.

(p.s. Used Lyra II and Encores)

 

I dropped my Cowon S and the screen no longer works. Sucks. I don't even want to send it back to them for repair, as I'm still waiting for my other cowon to be returned and it's been months. Getting ready to write that off as a loss. Itching to get a new dap, but nothing new seems to interest me much. Looked at the AK Futura or whatever the hell that weird name is, but I don't think I'll want that. I want a more run sounding dap, I'll probably get another Cowon as I find them to be perfect for my ears. Love the eq on cowon daps, by far the best for my preferences. Not sure if I should get another S or a Plenue 2. I think the S is still their flagship but I'm not certain.

I glanced at a new dap a few months back when I was on my hiatus, but I fail to recall which one. Might have been a hiby, IIRC it had Viper4Android built in stock, which I really like the idea of. Not sure though if my mind is working correctly as it was a rough time for me.

 

Plenue has shifted their tuning from a warm and full bodied sound (PS and P1), to a more reference sound for their current generation DAPs (P2 and PR). Given that you own quite few IEMs, R6 may not be the ideal choice, due to its High Output Impedance. Well, you could get the R6 and add a portable amp and that should take care of the OI problem. Else, something like the DX200 or WM1A might suit your needs.

I'd also recommend the K-Mod for the 1A if you go with that DAP and are flexible with your budget.

 

Definitely not looking to stack. Only thing I'd consider stacking anymore is Headstage arrow amp because it's so damn small.

I have a Sony 1Z, so 1A not something I want as they are too similar. Probably just get another Cowon S. Hiby looks real nice, but I use iems 99% of the time and don't want to be forced to stack.

Thanks for the advice bro.

 

I picked up an Ibasso DX200 as my all in one, i've been taking this thing around more than my WM1A. Actually liking the swappable amps more than i thought and the Amp 4 pairs pretty well with my Futuresonics customs, EQ and interface are quite nice.

 

Have that too. You prefer it over your Sony?

 

I haven't compared them at length yet but the Amp4 is much better than the stock amp. WM1A has better subbass and more smooth high end.
Mostly prefer the ibasso because it's usb type-c and i can use it as my transportable dac at work.
Battery life with the amp4 is something like 8 hours though, whereas the sony has ridiculous 20hr life.

 

Battery life is ridiculous on the Sonys. Lasts forever for me. I only have the stock amp for the DX200, never bought any other amps, and it mostly collects dust now.