Denon AH-D7200 Measurements and Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Here is a comparison of measurement data of same exact D7200unit (the loaner unit),
    To show differences in measurement rigs
    My results are the bottom green:
    Stock 7200 rig comparison.png
    As you can see, it is very similar with exception of my measurement rig coupler not picking up the 2.3k resonance as a peak,
    But instead as a dip(!) which is false.
    Also my coupler did not pickup any 8kdip either.
    I am assuming that may be false as I haven't noticed it in my brief time with loaner unit..

    Yet everything else seems very much match.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  2. PTS

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    I recently received the 7200s from the loaner tour, and got the chance to compare it to a previous incarnation - no, not the universally panned 7100s. My trusty old 7000s! So have Denon improved any of the shortcomings with the latest model? Well, yes and no.

    [​IMG]

    The first thing that becomes apparent when switching between the two, is the 7200 is noticeably rolled off in the higher frequencies compared to the 7000, to the point of sounding veiled. Denon had perhaps taken note of the widely reported hot treble from the Fostex TH-900 (a headphone which I've only briefly heard but seems to have a lot in common with the 7000) and taken a blunt axe to the issue with the 7200. With the 7000, the zing of acoustic guitar strings, sharp snare hits, and shimmering cymbals are a joy to behold. On the 7200 it's a more subdued affair, and things like snare drums are weirdly 'clacky' sounding.

    The second thing that I found of note, is the mid range has been pushed forward on the 7200. This is both a blessing and a curse, but mostly a good thing as the 7000 was always a little too v-shaped. On the 7200, male and female vocals and mid-range instruments such as guitars, horns, and strings are authoritative and clear in the mix. This gives the 7200 body, at the price of bloat and congestion during some of the busier musical passages.

    The bass is great on both headphones. The 7000 has a bit more slam and weight, while the 7200 it's a dialed back a few notches and sounds a little tighter. Because the mid-bass is pushed forward on the 7200, it feels like there's a little more overall bass to mid bleed and less separation.

    In terms of detail, I sometimes think the 7200 may have the edge, but I'm perhaps fooling myself as it's only perceived from the slight volume boost on vocals, guitars, etc. I also find myself thinking that the sound stage is smaller on the 7200, but again I get this perceived airiness and increased separation with the 7000s v-shaped sound.

    The build quality generally seems better on the 7200, although the headband on this loaner pair seems to have given up the ghost previous to arriving on my doorstep. You also get a nice removable cable, although thankfully my 7000 twisted fixed cable nightmare has ended with much welcome modifications. The 7000 feels lighter on the head and a little more comfortable, but it's hard to tell with the 7200 temporary headband replacement.

    Summing up... if they hadn't messed with the treble, I could see myself updating to the new model, but for the time being I'll stick with the 7000 and wait to see what Denon/Fostex do next.
     
  3. Monstieur

    Monstieur New

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    Can you comment on the soundstage compared to open back cans like Beyers?
     
  4. PTS

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    I'm not familiar with Beyer headphones, but Denon and Fostex are generally pretty good for soundstage. It's unusually wide and deep for closed, but definitely not on the level of some of the flagship HiFiMan or Sennheiser open designs, which I think present the best soundstage.
     
  5. zhouharvey

    zhouharvey PayPal’s $2 Sensible Enforcer

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    Faceless void is not good in this patch.
     
  6. Monstieur

    Monstieur New

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    How is the sub-bass / LFE compared to planar magnetic headphones? I'm considering the new LCD2 Classic instead of the AH-D7200. I'm not a bass head - I just want calibrated, reference level bass like my SE846. However the LCD series appears to have a lower bass level than reference if you take into account equal loudness compensation since I don't listen at 85 dB SPL.
     
  7. PTS

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    If you want great bass, the LCD-2 Classic is where it's at. Just be prepared to put up with a darker sound signature and heavy / uncomfortable headphones during long listening sessions.
     
  8. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    This is the review I was looking for. I love my missed D2000's, only because I cannot afford D7000's. I don't mind the V shape or treble peakyness. Glad I can skip these.
     
  9. Monstieur

    Monstieur New

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    Do open-back planars like the LCD2 Classic really produce more sub-bass rumble than the closed AH-D7200?
     
  10. PTS

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    Not necessarily more, just different sounding. The LCD2C in particular has more definition and texture to the bass. It's technically a better headphone than the AH-D7200, if you can put up with the weight.
     
  11. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I agree.
    In Stock form the bass is not as clear and the new LCD2C clearly can show more technicalities in low end.
     
  12. Eudis Fernandes

    Eudis Fernandes Aurorus Audio - MoT

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    Sup nerds,


    A little heads up. Denon D7200 has a weak point that the Y-axis yoke. The E-clip that holes the rotating gimble on the arm headband to the arms can break. Not super easily but its not the most reliable design. You can replace it with another 3mm E clip, generic is fine. You will need to remove the rubber grommet on the inner part of the arms.

    Also, this retention design can be found on the Foster TH and Denon DX00 variants. It used to hold the Arms to the cup plate (where it rotates in the X-axis).

    Denon will claim that they do not have this part for repairs, which is silly. Its an easy fix.
     
  13. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    They claimed they have zero parts,
    then suddenly say they have part but its a lie.

    The only parts they have for this Headphones are broken donor parts.

    For some stupid reason since it is their flagship made in Japan, they not making parts available.
    They only replace whole unit if under warranty.

    If you didn't get it from an authorized seller.
    They f*U and don't give a schiit to help you.
    Its a dam shame Denon schiitty customer service..
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  14. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    This is an annoyance because it is almost enough trebles but noticably tamed and dulled, as if they tuned it to bright garbage music.

    You will see in both pics I posted just how low it goes:
    They both look like a dull mess.
    It goes without saying that the wood cup chamber will definitely color the sound with the bass that elevated.
    Same goes for all the Fostex TH-X00 types.
    But at least they have trebles.

    Also,
    And it is Impossible for anyone to "mod" the trebles up, without killing the bass and sub bass.

    Impossible, or is it...
    Now look at my Denon 7200:
    [​IMG]
    If you look at the tiny squares you would note the bass is still elevated close to 10db up like stock,
    but more linear overall.

    It is also a cleaner sound, as noted on my CSD:
    [​IMG]
    Also note I am showing deeper into the low end down to 347, not higher up in the 450s like most.
    Look at the fast decay and clean empty space.

    I a pretty much settled on this signature.
    I am waiting for Denon to resolve my issue with a second pair, so I can mod it for an extra listening/loaner.

    Denon are real jerks for pissing me off because this was the only Headphone that has potential for me to mod to end-game resolution...

    I Also achieved an average 3db sensitivity boost making this thing very efficient.

    I do have the Abyss Diana so I not needed to actually do this,
    except for needing a resolving closed can for nightime listening.

    Yet with the new 5200 coming out,
    with what is believed to be the same drivers,
    and way lower price...

    It makes more sense to wait for that one as I believe it has a bit softer headband.

    I also have the Focal Elex coming to me finally which I was planning to play with,
    But not sure about it.
    It's design is flawed for modification purposes as its diaphragm does not extend beyond its motor&coil structure, forcing the whole sonic image to originate from its Center hole.
    But thats another story and off topic.
    I still say Focal created a flawed design though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  15. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    You really think they are this good? It's very interesting to me, as I'm always hoping for something different to try in a closed back, but Eikon or TH-900 would be too expensive as a second pair...

    I found a couple of places selling the AH-D5200, but at a price similar/slightly higher than AH-D7200 currently...
     
  16. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    The driver potential in the Denon, is like having a "sleeper" car.

    But currently its only a very nice mid performance unit, with a shallow wood cup.

    IMHO, the Denon diaphragm is substantially different and better than the biocelulouse fostex drivers.

    The biocelulouse drivers have a signature in its material in which you can tell.
    It's bass is different than say, a planar driver bass, or a plastic driver or metal type.
    It's a very, very natural sound, but not transparent (like an HD800).

    In contrast, the Denon driver is very devoid or transparent in its material type,
    like, as example how an HD800 does not sound like any type of plastic driver.

    The quality of the Denon driver diaphram material is just simply a better unit than Fostex.
    (I already tested Fostex drivers.)

    But Denon seem to gimp the capability of the unit, instead of trying to beat Utopia or HD800 level resolution (a level all should be trying reach, no excuses).

    They settled for just better material, but not better performance.
    They went halfway.

    Compare the stock measurements earlier in this thread,
    to what I squeezed out of this unit.

    My testing & modification reviels that Denon have the potential to easily make a better unit than they currently achieved.

    Their target consumer audience was not set at elite end game level.
    The stock version is like, (to use an analogy), like watching a colorful nice but cartoony picture , compared to a high rez digital photo of my Abysss Diana.

    The need for profitability always prevails.
    In my experience, Headphone Musicality (in it's signature) is still held as higher goal than accuracy or "resolve", with most of these companies of dynamic drivers.
    Sad.
    This why planar drivers still have the edge.
    Oh well.
     
  17. Eudis Fernandes

    Eudis Fernandes Aurorus Audio - MoT

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    Can you detail out your testing method?
     
  18. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    My testing rig I laid out in the thread here of measurement rigs.

    Although is is not as close as others, I I like my coupler better than what others are using because it more closely measures like it should (to my ears )in the upper range, where most couplers vary the most.

    I use natural paper surface rather than some creatology foams.
    Check the thread for measurement rigs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  19. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Although the Denon is a very capable driver I am interested to see what the 9200 has.
    They have not been very clear about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  20. Paul C.

    Paul C. New

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    Sorry to barge in. I just bought a pair of these cans and the left cup swivels all the way instead of "locking" at about 90+ degrees. Is there a way to make it behave like the right one? Do I need to disassemble the cup by unscrewing the two torx screws? Do I need to replace the rotating gimble with a new e-clip? Will post pictures if needed.
     

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