Eddie Current Zana Deux S

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Luckbad, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Afghan Vet

    Afghan Vet New

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    I posted this in a PM thread with a few friends I get together with on 'the other site', but I think it is relevant to this thread. Hoping that it has some value to you all, and I don't get flamed or banned for posting it :)

    I was reading through an Eddie Current ZDS thread on the other site and noticed this post:

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    Wow....that one post got me all buggered up.....what am I missing with my ZDS/Utopia....could I get a lot better sound with a 'stronger' amp? I sent this to a knowledgeable friend who agreed, that he always liked my Focal with a very strong amp (like the Cavali Liquid Gold that we tried). So, I decided to reach out to a friend and borrow some amps for an evaluation.

    I borrowed a Moth 2A3 and a Pass HPA-1 and went to a friend's house who has the Trafomatic Head2 tube amplifier. I wanted to see if the ‘greater power’ that the Pass potentially offered, or even the Moth would make the difference that I was after. This was an excellent opportunity to evaluate these pieces in the quite of my listening space - with my DAC (AURALiC Vega), source (AURALiC Aries), etc.

    I took my prizes home and set everything up. I got some quality time to switch back and forth between the LCD XC's that I borrowed and the Focals….and then the ZDS and the Pass. I eventually was able to add the Moth into the mix. My initial impressions were repeated and reinforced as I listened over the next few days. To cut to the chase…..I prefer the ZDS + Utopia!…..what I was hoping for, and what is the best outcome for me for several reasons. I'm not going to change amps - this exercise has reinforced my respect for the EC ZDS.

    So I had a solid few days of evaluation at my house (Synology NAS (various resolution from DXD 352 to Mp3) - AURALiC Aries - AURALiC Vega - Black Dragon RCA - ZDS/Moth/Pass). When I took the gear to John's house, FiiO X5iii as source to AURALiC Vega for my listening.

    Audeze LCD XC - many fit issues (heavy, headband, clamping, wanting to fall forward if you look down). Upon early comparison to the Utopia, it was evident that there were a couple frequencies that seem to zing my ear with the LCDs. Upon direct comparison, I was missing a bit of the space, air from the Utopia’s open design. I thought that the LCDs would have stronger bass response than the Focals, but I didn’t find that to be the case. I personally didn't think the LCDs were 'bad' out of the ZDS at all. Funny thing, when I took everything back, we evaluated the LCD's vs the Focals out of my friend's rig......he preferred his LCDs over the Utopias.....he explained that particular frequencies that are a bit 'hotter' on the LCDs match up with his hearing versus the more neutral Focals.

    The Pass amp was very good for many reasons, but it didn’t have the sound I have grown to prefer. It is technically very good, but it doesn’t have the same ‘presence’ that the tube amps I prefer. There seems to be a ‘liveliness’, sense of ‘openness', or ‘realism’ that I perceive with the tube amps on hand, that I didn’t get out of the Pass. It wasn’t harsh sounding, edgy or extremely dry…..I was told the voicing was intentionally on the ‘warmer’ side (it seems that is written about many solid state amps).

    The Moth has been a bit of a unicorn to me - I had an opportunity to buy this one when I was considering the ZDS, but the price and the age kept the amp out of my grasp…..I had only heard it once before at a meet, and my memory was that it had authority! It had good detail, but the bass was tremendous. Well, that memory was good…..what I notice going from the Moth to the ZDS is a bit better separation of instruments, a bit more of the sense of a tightness of images within the sound stage - maybe a bit wider of a stage. There was a bit more of a solid foundation in the lows with the Moth - a bit more weight, but it wasn’t as significant as my memory led me to believe. My comparison this morning tilted the entire presentation to the ZDS…….Listening especially to many tracks on ‘Windham Hill’s’ A Winter's Solstice II’……the ZDS had a clarity, a sweetness to the harp, flute, guitar, etc. that I preferred.

    The Trafomatic Head2 was an amp that I had not heard of until Vernon mentioned it to John as a great match for the HD800’s. There was a great buy on Head-Fi for one, and John took Vernon’s advice (because Vernon is very trustworthy, and John is a very smart guy ) and picked this one up. He was out of town, so he asked if it could be shipped to Vicki’s work. Well, it showed up in a huge crate, and it was very heavy…..and beautiful! I had it at my house for a couple weeks…..I hooked it up to make sure it had survived the trip from the West Coast, and I was very impressed with the sound out of the Focals. After a few tracks though, I decided to turn it off and set it on the floor. I thought I had perceived huge advantages in the bass department, and I had decided it was best to not listen to it versus getting obsessed about it. Well, this time around - I didn’t really perceive a major advantage in bass over the ZDS. I think John mentioned that he didn’t feel that way, and if anything, there may be a slight edge to the ZDS in that department. He mentioned to me that he felt their was a bit more detail with the Trafomatic - especially in the highs, but the midrange and mid bass may have been a touch better with the ZDS.

    I asked John for some feedback from his perspective, and he graciously sent this information to me:

    Eddy Current Zana Deux S
    Associated equipment: FiiO x5iii, Bryston BDA1 DAC, with Nordost Heimdall 2 Powercable, Nordost Frey 1 RCA’s.
    Sennheiser HD800’s

    Sweet strings without edge or harshness. Can visualize the bow sliding accords the strings then reverberating throughout the hall. Not thin. Could of had more body to the violins but this is typical of the hd800’s and not at all the case when listening to the focals. Excellent sense of space and detail. Found myself really getting into and appreciating each pull and push of the bow and appreciating the talent and emotion of the musician. Didn’t want to take the phones off, just wanted to listen and enjoy. Only thing that had me take them off was commenting on how much I enjoyed this amp. So musical and sweet. Voices were rounded, not edgy and defined. Same remained true regarding voices between the Senns and Focals. Senns were wonderful to listen to but lacked the chestiness, body, and weight of the Focals. Somehow the Focals deliver this without sacrificing any of the detail, transparency, space and sweetness of the HD800’s.

    Moth Audio 2A3
    Had trouble getting a solid connection with the jack. Noticed an immediate hum. Not as airy and sweet as the zd but what it gave up in that slight loss of top end re-creation of space, it made up for in spades in the midbass and midrange. Rich and detailed. Had the control and speed of a solid state but texture of a tube amp. Was a great amp for HD800’s because it provided the midbass that the HD’s often lack. This was another sound and amp that I could spend hours with. Darker and thicker than the EC ZDS but not in a negative way. Just a different sound signature. This was a more yin amp, the EC ZDS was a little more yang. Both did not come close to overdoing it in either direction.

    That is the impression with the Senn’s. With the Focals, the EC ZDS was the perfect bowl of porridge. They brought what I felt was an ideal balance to the EC ZDS. All the good things the Senn’s had plus midrange texture and midbass weight. I am content with my Senn’s and love them but the Focals are simply superior in every way. When it comes time to get another set of cans, they’ll be on my very short list.

    Pass HPA-1
    Right away I was surprised by the sibilance. Smooth but to the point of sounding slow. Little air surrounding instruments. Sounded like the music was recorded in an extremely deadened studio. I was impressed by the detail but there wasn’t enough shimmer, pluck or emotion. This amp ticked most of the boxes but fell short in emotion and musicality. Music wasn’t veiled but less engaging than I prefer and I was listening to the amp, not the music. It didn’t falter in its reproduction but the feeling of being in the room with the musicians never came. Good for those who want a very laid back, clinical presentation. I would recommend this amp to those who prefer this type of sound because it does have its strengths. Not my cup of tea though.

    Once again, he had positives / negatives when comparing the ZDS and the Trafomatic - soundstage, tonality, bass response - they were close to one another, but some aspects tipped the way of the ZDS and some tipped to the Trafomatic.

    After the headphone listening party, we moved upstairs to John's amazing 2 channel listening room. And wow! was this an amazing room.....with the best sounding system I have ever heard. I have heard many amazing systems, and it helped tremendously that I had a lot of my music on his Aurender to listen to :) Realism, sound stage, pace, dynamics - everything! Some pics of the experience.....I hope some of this may have been interesting.

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    John's 2 channel room - I'll try to get this right - Aurender, Berkeley Audio DAC, Audio Research pre, Constellation Audio amp, Magico S3 speakers.

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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Looks like a great micro-meet. The ZDS is actually a bit different from the ZD. There were some tweaks put into the ZDS to smooth out a bit of etch / edge in the treble and open up the soundstage. The output impedance is about 20 ohms. This works with the Utopia's bass impedance bump to bring out the bass and warmth and add some kick.

    The Moth 2A3 has better clarity and resolution, but is rolled on the top end, and softer. HD800 works best with the 2A3. There will be hum unless the power transformer is moved to an external chassis.
     
  3. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    Did you get to try the HD800 out of the Trafomatic with the 300ohms or 600ohms options?
     
  4. Afghan Vet

    Afghan Vet New

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    That is a great question - thanks for asking - I was reading some of that on the Trafomatic threads - that the various settings could present different sound signatures. This is from my friend who owns the Trafomatic + HD800's:

    "I typically use the 300. It’s more airy, open and well rounded. I occasionally go to 600 if I want more mid bass at the expense of some top end, which compromises the 800’s ability to recreate the sound stage."

    Also, I meant to post - that close up photo of the ZDS - it is on the high gain setting - that was me trying that setting to try to get what I thought I was missing from the ZDS.....I had some really good PM responses from Liu Junyuan about the Low/High gain settings on the ZDS and how it interacts with the Utopia. I have always used the low setting, and of course I'm using the low setting from now on :)

    Also, I only took the Philips Miniwatt over to John's house. I switch between the ECC35, the RCA 5691 red bass, the Sophia A Class, and the Tung Sol VT-229. I have really enjoyed reading all of the responses on this thread about the various 6SL7 tubes - very good information!
     
  5. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    @Vansen finally stuck a plastic o-ring on both ends of the screw on the ZDT's toroidal transformer box. Now it won't slip around anymore. Thanks for the tip!
     
  6. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    Can anyone suggest a good place to buy 6C33C-B power triodes? Seems like getting them from ebay/russia will be the cheapest, but a long wait.
     
  7. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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  8. skem

    skem Friend

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    Singtel? 6:33 AM! Are we in Singapore, Van? Get some Laksa.
     
  9. Drifterxny

    Drifterxny Friend

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    waw that's expensive, got mine for less than half that from ebay. It does take about 1-2 months from Russia though.
     
  10. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    When a tube dies, you don’t want to wait two months to hope a shady Russian eBay dealer gets a good tube to you to get an amp back up and running.
     
  11. Drifterxny

    Drifterxny Friend

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    that's why I bought 2 as back up when I got my ZDS and another 2 about 6 months later when I wanted to try a more vintage type, actually all 4 combined came out less than that, and they all work great. Got 6D22S from russian sellers too, no issues.
    Unless you need them in a rush, I'd give the ebay sellers a shot, assuming good feedback has history etc.
     
  12. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    So this happened yesterday. Thanks to @netforce at tsav for letting @Melvillian and I bring some gear and listen to a bunch of headphones and hang out for a while!

    IMG_20180119_120354.jpg

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  13. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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  14. skem

    skem Friend

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    Oh frabjous joy, the ZDS arrived today. But wait, what's this rattling I hear? Or more like big chunky thing knocking about inside? After securing approval from EC, I opened it to diagnose what was the problem.

    Seems, not one, but two power resistors snapped off during shipping. The resistors are too heavy for the thin and non-ductile leads they're made with. One resistor was still attached at one side, with another lead hanging free to poke voltage into the circuit wherever it pleased (see purple circle); the other resistor was totally loose and hanging out on top of the caps.

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    I also found one connection that was never soldered in the first place, a resistor connecting pin 3 of the preamp socket to ground. Presumably a fluke and not a real QC issue.
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    After EC approved me doing my own repairs, I trimmed the leads on the big power resistors and moved them a quarter inch up the ground rail (the original and new solder spots are visible in the photo below). The resistors fit more naturally when mounted in this position. It allows them to be mounted with shorter leads, and thus a shorter lever arm, which places less torque on the solder joint. Previous versions used smaller resistors that didn't have this issue. I also soldered the leads in such a way as to give them a bit of stress relief. Perhaps EC should adopt this placement and/or use a bit of hot-glue to stabilize these resistors before shipping.

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    This amp took 32 days between its completion and it finally reaching me, thanks in part to the shipping inserts being out of stock, the holidays, and a trio of FedEx delays. It has been a rollercoaster, but I'm very glad it's finally here. Now just waiting on the arrival of a 1953 Fivre 6SL7 tube that @bazelio recommended so I can try it out properly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  15. skem

    skem Friend

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    Craig says hot glue won’t work to stabilize the resistors as they get too hot; but that he’ll try to use the smaller brown-package resistors when available.
     
  16. skem

    skem Friend

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    Some prelimary impressions.

    It need not be said, but this is an impressive amp.

    Comparing the ZDS with the JJ Electronic 6SL7 that came with it to the Dragon Imspire IHA-1 with electroharmonix chrome tops, and HD800sdr, HD650, and HEKv1 — the ZDS is definitely more resolving than IHA-1, and yet still more enjoyable, on all three cans. Noting this is not the best tube match for either amp.

    And who says ZDS doesn’t play well with playnars? I think the HEK works very well with HEKv1. Well enough that I’ve decided to sell my unmodded 2013-era HD650 (if anybody wants, PM me, they’re minty.)

    I look forward to seeing what tube rolling does in ZDS soon enough.

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  17. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    How is it compared to the Pioneer M-22?
     
  18. Deskaudio

    Deskaudio New

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    [​IMG]
    https://imgur.com/8cH6gxT

    So far, the best sounding tube is the Brimar 6SL7GT on the left followed by Mullard ECC35 then the Brimar CV1985

    caveat: to my ears and setup, mostly vocals listening

    hope this image comes out right.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  19. skem

    skem Friend

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    Best sounding in what respects? Can you describe the differences? What headphones?
     
  20. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    +1

    I'd like to know more too.
     

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