Ether Flow vs. HD650?

Discussion in 'Leaderboard, Overboard, and Deals' started by econaut, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    For bass in that price range I'd look for some used HE-560's.
     
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Biodynamic drivers will have less compressed bass. HE-560 fully embraces the Hifiman sound signature of thin, forward, wall of sound.

    Headphone deep bass is ridiculous though. If op really wants cheaper bass he should buy 6 inch or bigger woofer speakers. Ideally pornstar size woofers for more punch. Maybe get some subs too.

    Or stick to headphones and get the Aura Interactor off Ebay:
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    It must have been a bitch to try and get that album done with Lars at the helm putting that shitty (YES) drum mix at the forefront of everything, everything, everything. It's a fantastic album in many aspects...but it has hurt many ears...
     
  4. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    My modded 6XX ABSOLUTELY has more bass slam and impact than stock. This is a must. No question.
     
  5. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    @Psalmanazar

    Since you seem to know a little about music production and metal, which cans and amps would you recommend and why?
     
  6. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue that the 560 is one of the only HFM cans that isn't thin or forward. If we are talking about other models - I would agree.
     
  7. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Not to add to the debate here but interms of thinness from the HFMN line:

    HE-1000,HE-500,HE-5le,HE-6, HE-400, Edition X v1&2

    The 560 is thinner than all of those but can do better with modding. Honestly the op should really consider modding to get what he wants. I definitely agree with @Psalmanazar there about the thinness of the 560. If the op doesn't like closed cans then a modded 650 properly amped is hard to beat for impact and slam but he should try an he-6 and speaker tap it. There is also a bass mod for the HE-6 as well to get even more from it. Options:

    Open:
    Utopia with pads swapped (mad expensive)
    Modded Elear
    Kennerton Odin (costs a lot)
    HE-6
    Kennerton Vali

    Closed:
    Eikon
    z1r
    Ori
    Slants
    Emu Teak
    Fostex stuff
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  8. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Mine actually had too much, and it started swamping those lovely mids, so I had to dial it back. It's in a good place now.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The HE560 has a few treble bumps and low bass distortion that can make it sound lean. It's definitely lean unmodded with the stock pads. With mods, at best maybe slightly warm, but bassy, punchy, impactful are not how I would describe the 560, at least in regards to the other cans being discussed such as the HD650 or Ether Flow.
     
  10. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    Which mods did you apply?

    Another noob question:

    When talking about bass slam and impact, we are talking about the frequencies between 50-100 Hz, right? But there must be other qualities / features as well than just a boost in that frequency range, right?
     
  11. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    My pair is modded, and i'm running some slight EQ. With this in place I find the bass very impactful on my 560's, but I am also running them on speaker taps, which may be having a more dramatic impact than I thought. :)
     
  12. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    I've been keeping an eye out for some used HE-6's, since I have the speaker tap rig ready to go. Looking forward to comparing to my 560's when I get them in.
     
  13. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Cheap to you won't be actually good to me and you probably don't really listen to metal all that much. Most metal sounds like shit. The old school, heavy metal sound is thin and forward like the first Iron Maiden, Megadeth, and Metallica albums and most black metal. The other end of the spectrum are fucked up, poorly-recorded muddy pieces of shit like the first Black Sabbath, Bathory, and Carcass albums.

    You cited "One" by Metallica which is off And Justice For All which has no f'ing bass as Metallica mixed and eqed the entire low end out of it (even for 80s air raid siren metal standards) as they're Spinal Tap type retards. Any equipment that brings real body and punch to it is probably a piece of shit lofi/chifi/colored/warm I can't say the second half of this neologism on SBAF anymore/turd gear as not even OTLs save that album. If Justice doesn't sound like a thin and bright piece of shit on your gear, then your gear sucks. Even mainstream rock fans and casual listeners complain that Justice sounds like crap. The Gungnir Multibit is when the Schiit DACs start to get really good though.

    You're using a Fiio to a Jotunheim to an HD 650. With the HD 650, the Jot sounds okay but still a tiny bit thin and forward. Ditch the FiiO turd. Sell it for beer money to some greasy Redditor in cargo shorts asking for help on picking up women with computer dating services during his breaks from Battlefield 1917. You're in Germany so look at Modi Multibit (only if you get Jot) /Bifrost Multibit/Meier Daccord (Good Wolfson 8471). Get a non Chifi/Objecticist amp that's not rolled off for the HD 800 or underpowered for closed studio cans. The Meier gear isn't bad at all but I haven't heard the higher end amps and the Corda Rock is warm and rolled off.

    Audio production setup you can afford? Nothing but the speakers are good here but you probably don't have a ton of burnable cash as you're using a FiiO and tried gear instead of just buying it like a rich asian kid. USB for audio production is ridiculous. You might be able to get poverty Genelecs or something being closer to Finland. I don't like the Focal monitors. If you're really serious and know what you're doing, get a good interface not some USB turd:
    HD 280 for tracking can to hear yourself play or the click if you use a click.
    JBL LSR 305 powered monitors to mix
    Steinberg UR22mk2 to plug into your computer as a source, mic interface, headamp (for the 280), and pre for the powered monitors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  14. GTABeancounter

    GTABeancounter Friend

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    At the risk of adding noise to this thread (but with the thought that "the end justifies the means")... someone should "sticky" this exchange somewhere for all new posters to see.

    After reading the title I was sure this was going to be some sealioning dumpster fire of a thread but it's not, SBAF indeed.
     
  15. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    I think Justice still sounds way better than Cradle of Filths Cruelty and the Beast, though. Indeed I don't listen to metal that much anymore like 18 years ago when I was into black metal (not CoF, but true evil underground no keyboards no female vocals church burning murder total human annihilation type). Having grown up, I still like the music and know that the sound quality lacks a little. My favorites right now are probably (old) Ulver and (old) In The Woods.

    To clear up two misunderstandings: I have a Gungnir Multibit at home and own the Jotunheim (the latter goes to @TRex ). I just used the Fiio as source in order to be able to demo the Ether Flow with my own music. I also took the Jotunheim with me, since I guess it's a good idea to listen to cans with the potential amp. I didn't know anything about the damping factor and reverb, concerning planars or some Metallica recordings.

    I understand your point that if equipment brings body and punch to Justice, it might not be "real hifi". This is indeed the point were we take different directions and I prefer the fun over the "correct" sound. I actually believe that these two seeming opposites can be united somehow.

    Right now I am listening with the Gungnir Multibit + Jot + HD650 stock and fully balanced and I like the sound very much. If I had not heard the Ether Flow's slam and impact I wouldn't miss a thing. Now that I know it can be there I want it, of course. We are not talking about boomy muddy bass here, like Fidelio X2, for example. I want that kickdrum hitting hard, precise and with impact.

    Thanks to this thread there seem to be different ways to achieve this:

    - get a better amp for the 650
    - mod the 650
    - get different cans

    Right now I don't know which direction I will take, but I plan to listen to the Utopia (also with Elear pads) and the HE-560 as soon as possible, since I know one of the two local stores has them. Unfortunately, the Ether Flow is at the other store, so no direct comparison possible.
     
  16. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I'll just leave this here:



    (Saw them live and Gabriela's percussion sounded more like German nosebleed techno kickdrums than someone belting a guitar.. it was... impressive... and a hundred times more intimidating than pretty aseptic soundboard audio here.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  17. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Kick drums don't usually hit hard, precise, and with punch in real life. The subbass rumble and wallop is all fake and varies from recording to recording. If you don't want to accept what recordings actually sound like then you are lo-fi so should get lo-fi or only listen to modern, sterile digital recordings made on ProTools with drum samples.

    I thought you were a headphone newbie using the fart I mean FiiO to the Jot. You have basically have reached the limits of headphones man. The only realistic upgrade options are:
    1. Speakers.
    2. The Utopia with a better amp.
    3. Ditch the Jot. Get the Mjolnir 2 or a great, output transformer coupled tube amp and keep the HD 650 or mod an HD 800.
    4. The HE-6 on a good, synergistic speaker amp but why not just get speakers then?

    Speaker beat the other options easily too. You'll probably find something not to like about the Utopia, HD800, planars, and the HD 650, so option 1 is best and you'll get to laugh at the ridiculous headphone enthusiasts praising headphone bass and punch off some dumb, bloomy, hard hitting OTL.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  18. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    Agreed on #4. I love this hobby, but I spend most of my treasure on my speaker setups, because the attainable audio quality and return on investment is superior to almost any headphone system. Most of my home headphone listening has been supplanted by my nearfield setup (XTZ 99.26mkII), and now headphones are mostly a work thing.
     
  19. Shardnax

    Shardnax New

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    Probably going to differ on taste here but, with better dynamic range and mastering in general, I think sub-genres like power, speed, and symphonic could sound better. Obviously there's no helping black metal, noise, or similar that's trying to sound like crap.
     
  20. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    As written in an earlier post, metal is just one of the genres I listen to. If I was listening to (black) metal only, I might be less interested in good hifi gear ;)

    Speaking of good hifi gear:

    • 1. "Speakers"
      • I already have two rooms with decent speaker rigs including Dirac Live room correction suite (@SineDave : I also have an XTZ amp :)

    • 2. "The Utopia with a better amp"
      • I will listen to the Utopia, Stax and some Hifimans this week and make up my mind. I will take the Jot with me, since it will be my amp for the next weeks / months. I will also listen to the cans on whatever amp they have in the store as well, of course.

    • 3. "Ditch the Jot. Get the Mjolnir 2 or a great, output transformer coupled tube amp and keep the HD 650 or mod an HD 800"
      • At the least you got me curious to compare Jot and Mjolnir 2 sooner or later (and maybe other (OTL) tube amps as well), no matter which cans I will be using.

    • 4. "The HE-6 on a good, synergistic speaker amp but why not just get speakers then?"
      • I will have a read on the HE-6.



    @Marvey : You said the Mjolnir 2 has a very hard slam, but I it has only 0.3 to 1 ohms output impedance, not much more than Jot, as I see it. How come?
     

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