Focal Utopia Review (collective stream of consciousness)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    Yea, when I say not a relaxing headphone it's not a slight at all. Most of the time I'm listening when working so my HEK still works better for that. The Utopia can demand full attention, in a good way.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well I find the HEK too damn bright as well, so...Just not sure which is brighter, that or the Utopia. Ah, damn, you'll never know. Each HEK will sound slightly difference based on my experiences.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The EC Studio is very tonally similar to the Ragnarok, so go figure as how the Utopia will sound. My favorite headphones with the EC Studio are the HD650 (modded), PMx2, LCD2r2 Unicorn Edition, etc. You guys get the idea.

    Utopia V1 measurements show a broad bump from 4-6kHz and a minor CSD ridge at 8kHz and another at 16kHz. Standard measurements (that take into account effects of earpad and internal cavity) show spikes at 4kHz, 6kHz, 9kHz, 12kHz, and 16kHz. I'd bet there is an ultrasonic peak at 32kHz.

    The Be coloration I bet is the 16kHz (and presumed 32kHz spike). It kind of goes "shhh shhh shh", but not really because it's past that region which we can hear easily. Those who have heard the Utopia get the idea.

    The rest of the junk 12kHz and below... No one should be surprised of the varying impressions. The peaks are there, but the tips of those peaks generally don't go past the neutral line by much. On what I would consider neutral amp, (Studio, Rag, Joti, Magni 2U), the Utopias are going to sound bright. Focal could have implemented more mechanical damping to tame the peaks, but I'm glad they didn't. No other headphone I've heard has the Utopia's responsiveness to tiny signals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  4. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Can you confirm that the ultrasonic resonance is at 32kHz? The smoothed stereoplay measurements that I have that go to 40kHz show a peak at 30kHz, but I don't think that's the resonance.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It was just a guess. In hindsight, I should have taken a look for curiosity's sake.
     
  6. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    What is the audible symptom of a presumed 32 kHz ultrasonic resonance?
     
  7. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    Inter modulation distortion I suspect.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah. It's what comes sideways. All the metal tweeters, Ti, Al, Be, etc. have big sharp ultrasonic spikes at different frequencies depending upon driver size and material.

    It's not the static state measured peak per se, and it may not necessarily be IMD, but there seems to be timbral stuff related to it.
     
  9. MrButchi

    MrButchi Gear Master Europe

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    I just came back from SF to Paris with my Utopia (thanks again @velvetx - you rock for keeping it warm for me), and the biggest thing that surprised me right out of the box is how much these are sensitive to pads positioning.

    Depending how high or low relative to my ears I can hear a significant difference in the signature, especially in the mids being more present. I can reproduce that by pressing on the phones on my hears such that the drivers are 3-5mm closer.

    Am I the only one noticing this? Kinda makes me curious to try other pads like Elear for instance.

    For context, my ears just fit in the cups or so it feels (for true bat-eared people it might be a stretch), and listen on BW2 and Gungnir Multibit (black Yggdrasil on the way). My only other real headphone experience is HD800, which pads are so soft that they don't really move.

    With 4 hours of listening time, I wouldn't wander into any further comment (and one will agree that the above did not need more than 5 minutes of listening time).
     
  10. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Oops! Sorry, guys, I was busy last week, so I didn't get to responding...

    Mm... now that you mention it, I think the tonality is largely the same between the two.

    The main differences would be that Utopia does sound a lot faster than the 2r2, but not as "forceful" or "impactful" as the 2r2. I don't think I've heard any headphone aside from the Abyss that can reproduce bass impact even close to an LCD-2.

    And soundstage-wise, I think both are about equal, though Utopia would most likely sound like it has more soundstage depth. Width-wise about the same, I think.

    Imaging would be much better with Utopia, but that's only until there's bass.

    For instance, I think most planars would destroy Utopia and any dynamic headphone in presenting the bass in the live version of Hotel California. I don't think I've heard any dynamic that can cleanly define the drum in Hotel California as a "drum". Most of them sound like a blur... and even the very best can only present kind of an idea of a solid object, but none can represent the weight very well.

    Uhm... there is something peaky/sharp/sibilant/harsh with the Jotunheim pairing, I think. And sometimes Utopia sounds like it's decaying so fast that it glosses over details with Jotunheim. This is very weird, but I swear I hear more details in my HE-5 on Jotunheim as opposed to Utopia.

    String plucks and the sound of fingers and flesh caressing those strings are somewhat lost with the Utopia + Jotunheim pairing. They are still there, but there is no reverb, or the reverb dies off too fast?

    Tonally, I don't find there to be any issue (except for the slight peakiness), but it's the overall speed of the presentation that's unnatural.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  11. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Thanks to the loaner program, I got to spend the better part of a week listening to the Utopias. Since others have offered such good, detailed impressions, I’ll be brief-ish.

    It took me a while to adapt to the Utopia tonal balance. Day 1, I said “wow, these are lean. Almost emaciated!”, and after 3 or 4 days of listening closely and trying to give them a chance, I say “these could use 3dB more bass/midbass, but I can live without that in light of the phones other virtues”.

    What the U’s have that the HD-650’s underplay or lack: better portrayal of the room and the space around instruments, bass clarity, and those micro-textures and high midrange overtones that make things feel, for lack of a better word, real. The higher overtones of snare drums, the sound of skin against conga heads, that kind of thing.

    For example, the attack on snare drum hits in “Calling Elvis” is amazing. The 650s have the dynamics and the thwack, but the U’s articulate all these subtle overtones and micro-textures that the 650s underplay or lack.

    Over the course of the week I listened to them the Utopias stopped feeling so lean, especially when I stopped switching back and forth with the 650s.

    (Even so, I vote we donate the loaner Utopias to Hands after the tour for modding experiments to see if he can pad roll them into my personal perfect headphone. :->)

    After I adapted to the tonal balance, the Utopia survived upper midrange torture-test tracks like Roy Buchanan’s “Down by the River” from Sweet Dreams Anthology, but the Utopia still made stuff like Cotez the Killer from Live Rust sound pretty scratchy, thin, and un-awesome.

    A song like Bohemian Rhapsody is all over the map. Varies between badass levels of phatness to near-shrillness. That’s prolly more an artifact of the production than anything. I guess I understand now what people say about the HD800s being brutally unforgiving of bad production (forgive me, RTB, for I have sinned against you. You did the best you could with 5.3 million bounce tracks.) The Utopias can be this way too.

    I keep coming back to that realness/G Factor/emotional involvement thing the Utopias seem to have in spades. The last time “Svefn-g-englar” sounded this overwhelming and emotionally involving I was very high on DMT listening to the song through some 12” open baffle University coax speakers driven by a Scott 299. For me, the Utopia was capable of evoking that kind of transcendent experience at times.

    That kind of experience is what I want out of a music reproduction system. That sense of falling into or being helplessly drawn into the music. The Utopias have that strange power for me. At $4k retail, every single nit should be picked bloody, but at the end of the day I’ve never gotten so much of that strange power (G Factor?) from a headphone.

    I did most of my listening through what is becoming my favorite chain: SPDIF > Gungnir Multibit > Mjo2 with WE396A tubes (these tubes are really cool. They take the strengths of the Mjo2 and add better soundstage depth.)
     
  12. pippenainteasy

    pippenainteasy Acquaintance

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    We've had Beryllium drivers in speakers costing $1300/pair (Usher BE-718 locally in Asia) and $1500/pair (Paradigm S1v2).

    So $3000 can't be the price difference for a little carbon fiber and beryllium drivers. In fact, you can buy a pair of vapor deposited 25mm Beryllium tweeters from OEMs off of Madisound for around $900/pair, and DIY/single unit cost that OEMs charge you on sites like Dayton or Madisound are about 70-80% higher than what they charge directly to businesses in mass production numbers (based on what I've been quoted for diamond and beryllium driver prices from speaker manufactures in relation to OEM pricing). So I would estimate a pair 40mm beryllium drivers probably costs Focal slightly under $800/pair if they are getting their drivers from say, Brush Wellman or some other major beryllium supplier.

    Add the cost of carbon fiber, and you are probably looking at Utopias costing nearly $900/pair more to make than the Elear. The extra $2100 is the markup.

    I guess the problem is if you are at purely percentages, the Utopia is actually the better value. If we are being completely fair, the Elear probably costs $100 or so to make, maybe even less. So let's say a 9x markup. Whereas the Utopia probably costs roughly $1000 to make, making it only a 4x markup. Of course in pure dollars, the profit is higher. Percentage wise it's a lower markup because the materials cost of beryllium (an exotic metal) is completely outside of Focal's control, whereas they can control pretty much the cost of anything else since you can find substitute suppliers/materials for constructing the frame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  13. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    I found the slight honk to be more annoying than the beryllium tweeter treble issues honestly. I'm sure the treble will get annoying and fatiguing over longer, louder listening sessions but the honk is in your face at all times.
     
  14. pippenainteasy

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    It is a pretty honky sounding headphone, but I suspect it's entirely due to earpads. You can also hear some resonances when playing very bassy songs that I don't hear in headphones with bigger earcups. If you remove the earpads (I did just to hear how it would sound like) and the honkiness goes away, as well as the bass-induced resonance, and also the soundstage opens up.

    I'm almost certain the Utopias would be a better headphone had they used bigger earcups (fixing most of the soundstage issues) and wider (opening for the ears) earpads. In fact I removed the earpads and just lined the cups with a bunch of stick-on felt pads and it sounded a lot more spacious and less honky. But ultimately, I returned them to the store I got them from due to the immense weight of the damn things.
     
  15. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Following up on this. Comfort is great for hours even with my large ears. Only wear complaint I have is the Utopes don't clamp much. If I bend over to pick something up they start to slide off. I'm one who doesn't bend the HD6x0 metal headband at all.
     
  16. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    OK it's time for my own personal stream of consciousness...

    Warning . I used mostly this Utopia from a GOv2 or a Yggdrasil/Cmoy combo or a Shanling M3 used as DAC/AMP or DAP. My Stratus was at Donald's place for check and repair. I Only listened to the Utopia off the DNA Stellaris during last LA meeting. I don"t think any other amplifier would have completely changed my feelings but if you're thinking I'm not qualified to give impressions because I didn't use an appropriate amplifier, you can skip all the crap below. :)


    During the time I had the Utopia this headphone never ceased to impress me and to disappoint me. Sometimes at the same time, sometimes alternatively. The point is I had no regret to put if for sale because I never felt in love with it and never enjoyed to listen to my music as much as I do with my other headphones. Here is how my feelings evolved during the time I had it with me.


    DAY 1: "WOW"

    Impressive - soooo dynamic headphone . Impressive Speed and clarity - all percussive instruments sounded so real. it seems every small impact are coming from a perfect black background in such a perfect precise way. Kinda small soundstage , Natural and well defined , well proportionned but kinda "concentrated". Not a dealbreaker but still not the strongest point . Good precise imaging. Nothing special ?


    DAY 2 : "wow"

    After some serious hours of listening, I checked a few of my fav test tracks and didn't find any flaw in what I was listening - Overall Tonality maybe a bit on the bright side but nothing bothersome. bass was well extended, super fast and textured. Overall very clean sound . Very enjoyable with all kind of music. sound sig is a bit overdone though. Like a tastefully tuned headphone. Balanced but not so neutral. It's transparent though in the sense it sounds very differently depending on the recording itself.


    DAY 3: "Utopia meets Milos HE90 Clone"

    Ugh. Utopia sounds colored compared to the clone. Sense of space and grandeur is so much better with the Clone. Speed and clarity are similar though. the Focal driver is definitely a masterpiece. Best dynamic Driver I ever heard. But it's not the best headphone of the world.


    Day 4 : "Utopia meets a DNA Stellaris and an AKG K1000 + a HE90 Clone + SRX+ combo"

    Damn this old AKG is great , I want one ! Clone/SRX+ sounds better than Stellaris/Utopia. I now feel the soundstage could be a dealbreaker for me. Something kinda unnatural in the sound sig. Slight coloration or tonal enhancement to make the headphone more pleasurable... W Shaped ? . The fact is we weren't hypnotized by the Stellaris/Utopia combo.


    Day 6: Utopia vs HD800SD on Stellaris (meeting conditions)

    Holy f**k I think I prefer the Old Senn...


    Day 8-15 : Several hours of comparison betwenn HD800SD and Utopia . both plugged in the GOv2.

    Utopia's Driver definitely shows HD800 driver's age....The youngster is faster, cleaner, more technically proficient. The Senn is not that far though. Not as much tonal difference as I could think. Surprising. Both convey some coloration and both are transparent enough to let me hear how recordings are different. Different coloration though. Colder for the HD800SD but the Senn offer more weight to notes. both headphones are brightish IMO. I can't get rid of the feeling the focal sounds a bit "light?" "small?". Something related to the small driver ? I definitely can't find the Utopia is overally so superior to my HD800SD to my ears and for my music. my HD800SD won't go anywhere even if I could consider the Utopia as superior. I don"t see in what the Utopia would be superior for soundstage and imaging ? HD800 still rules to my ears.


    Day 15-25 : HD800SD on loan. Utopia alone at home.

    Fatigue. A lot of recordings sound bad/awful now. Something wrong with the pairing with the GO v2 ? .. mmh yea it's better with cmoy/Yggdrasil or the shanling M3. more open , less grainy . Maybe this damn headphone is super sensitive to recording/sources/amps/Whatever. Makes sense considering the driver technicalities. Much less fatigue with other source/amp than ther GO v2 but pleasure is not there . I still hear the Utopia as slightly colored. slightly overdone bass (kind of fakeness like if the driver was a bit too pushed to provide some bass extension he couldn"t naturaly give), slightly overdone mid clarity , and slightly overdone treble sparkle. not that noticeable in the FR though but still a feeling I can't get rid of. Slight uninvolving steely dryness as well ... How the Stratus could fix that for me ? . it seems the way the headphone is tuned pulls me off my music. it's Like too much makeup on a pretty woman, too much photoshop on a great pic. On the other side , it's still amazing to hear Utopia's transparency and the way this headphones reproduce drums and all percussions. so accurate attacks . I love that but I hate the tone . Damn.


    Day 25 : HD800SD is back.

    OK. I feel like i'm at home with this damn Senn . It costed me 600€ 3 years ago and all my system is built for it and with that old shit, I enjoy my music all day long. Why should i bother another 4K Diva I don't really love enough ? Why should I bother it when I think a DIY Stat is a better headphone ? Why should I bother something I won't use much because it does not make me enjoy my music when the money can allow me to buy a nice used speaker system a friend just offered to me + a full HE-6 System I found in classified + All Xmas gifts for my Family + Some spare money for a trip in a nice town in Europe with my wife. f**k that !

    Day 26 : Utopia Sold (fortunately to someone who likes it better than I do)


    End. I can't honestly talk more about technicalities like resolution or stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  17. Besnia

    Besnia Facebook Friend

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    I am afraid that'd be impossible. The driver is the heart of the headphone. The cup is just acoustics. You can present different impedance to the driver, you can adjust the energy preservation/loss, minimize or enhance inner reflections, etc. You can't compensate for an inferior driver though. Never heard the Utopia, but it has a clean cone with proper suspension. Surely, very rigid for the given weight. No idea about the magnet, but I believe the cone alone puts it in a different league in terms of sound clarity to HD650's mylar (or something like it) cone. That said though, I don't like much metallic domes for certain zingy coloration they all seem to exhibit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  18. Dr. Higgs

    Dr. Higgs Boson - Member

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    I'm glad you brought up that point on the strained bass extension, I noticed that too when I listened to the Utopia at the NYC meet and I haven't heard many other people bring it up. Once you crank the volume up too much with the Elear or Utopia, the control over the sub-bass seems to sharply diminish which leads to a very unnatural presentation IMO. The problem seems much worse with the Elear though, I tend to listen to music pretty loud and I have to be really careful with where I set the volume on bass heavy tracks.
     
  19. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    @Dr .higgs : Yep it's maybe the same with the Elear but considering the Elear is obviously colored ( warm forgiving tone) , the slight additionnal bass coloration a less obvious sin in my opinion . With the Utopia I was expectings something more dead neutral or reference sound so the very slight coloration is more annoying. Hope this makes sense for you :) .

    I've the Elear on my head right now ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  20. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    I was thinking about getting the Utopia but haven't been able to listen to them properly and am seeing a few more opinions like yours. Starting to sound as if they are quite good, but just not good enough to justify such a cost even with the diminishing returns we're used to seeing.

    The fact that you mentioned "light" and "small" even sounds a bit more worrying, since something that I liked less about the 800 is how they can sound a bit thin, lacking body sometimes. Not a tool for all uses, but considering the price difference, they offer a lot.
     

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