Headphone System with the the best Soundstage for Movies & Gaming (HD800)

(((EDIT: An earlier title of this thread was "HD800 + Movies = Which Amplifier in Europe?". I took a few sharp turns on the way to accomplishing my goals, the original voting poll should be ignored. Jump to the end of page 2 for a summary of everything I have learned about available equipment choices for movie watching, and my final cinematically endowed headphone system.)))

Hello,

I'm hoping for some advice under a certain set of conditions, if you fine fellows and fellettes would be so kind.

I've looked through other threads but the recommendations aren't applicable because I'm in the UK and I'm looking for a single ended solid state amp primarily for movies. As I understand it with film the goal is transparency and resolution. I don't feel the arguments for Tube amps apply in this case. I want to avoid XLR outputs as I'd rather not be putting money in to something with circuitry I won't be using. The other thing is that I'm looking for something high powered. I want to put to the test the theory that more headroom is better, already taking into account the usual 15-20db peaks. Please tell me if you think differently about any of this.

I'm coming from an O2, and I digitally PEQ to the Harman Target with a Behringer DEQ2496. I currently use an Audioengine D1, and am considering upgrading to a Schiit Bifrost Multibit. I also have the Fostex TH900 and a Dragonfly Red, with a Geek Out 450 on the way which I got for 75% off.

I've mostly been looking for used on eBay as these things tend to sell for a third to half of their original price. Though brands like Gustard, Matrix, and Schiit offer great value new. So far the best I've found still seem to have some weakness or another:

PLEASE SUGGEST ADDITIONS TO THIS LIST
-
Burson Soloist
Burson Soloist SL MK1
Burson Soloist SL MK2
Violectric V200
Gustard H10 (V200 clone with dual transformers and, I think, the volume pot placed before the amplification stage)
Schiit Asgard 2
Schiit Mjolnir 2 with LISST "Tubes" (EDIT: Disregard, has an XLR output)
Audeze Deckard
Matrix M-Stage HPA-3U (Deckard Clone (EDIT: Not a clone, same design and OEM as the Deckard. Thanks Psalmanazar))
EDIT: Schiit Magni 2 Uber (Thanks Marvey)


Thanks for reading, really appreciate your input.

 

The M-Stage HPA-3U (or 3B for the amplifier only balanced version) is not a Deckard clone. The units are just made by the same Chinese OEM, Matrix. Expect slightly warm Chifi sound.

 

I used to own a Violectric V90. I know people don't like them here, but the Violectric house sound corresponds nicely to the HD800. Slightly warmer and more full-bodied than most other SS amps. Violectric's build quality is also very good, apart from the jacks. These feel a bit cheap and plasticky.

 

Sounds like a question for The All Purpose Advice thread.

 

Apologies if this is in the wrong place. I had a look for posting guidelines but I couldn't see any?

 

No worries, they're sort of buried. Stickied threads in this subforum: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?forums/tales-from-the-bully-pulpit.2/ in addition to the thread linked to above.

Generally, posting a new thread 15 minutes after joining probably isn't the best idea as the topic has likely been covered before:

• http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/best-500-amp-for-hd800.1882/
  
• http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/best-amps-for-sennheiser-hd800.330/

 

Thanks zonto. Yeah I read through those but they didn't really apply to my criteria. For example many amps mentioned on here aren't sold anywhere in Europe, so I avoid them as the import fees are a bit of a git, and dealing with the warranty would be expensive.

 

Thanks Marvey. I was happy with my O2, until on a whim I tried the headphone out of the Audioengine D1 and was surprised to find that there was more decay/reverb and low level detail compared to the O2 fed from D1's RCA outputs. I did a simple blind test and identified the D1 more often than not, and found the times I got it wrong were because I wasn't taking enough time. I considered there may be a boost in the D1's frequency response but it didn't sound like it. I wondered whether the O2 was faulty, but I read Tyll Hertsens take on it and he felt it sounded dry too.

The other thing was that I felt that the Fostex TH900 sounded tighter with better separation out of the O2 than from an iPhone 6S. Which I did not expect as the iPhone 6S has more than enough power for them. So I became interested in the idea of having a lot of power to spare, and more so after reading Bob Katz's blog posts about his DIY M3 at Innerfidelity

Can you elaborate on your thinking, please. Are you saying that the audio production on movies reduces fidelity so it's not worth upgrading equipment too far? My goal is to have a headphone setup instead of a high end home cinema system.

Though my priority is Movies, I will use it for music too.

 

Yeah it's a real pain in the ass finding real specs. I try and look for independent measurements, but their aren't many. I'm not particularly happy with any of the above options but don't want to spend a fortune, I put the money into the headphones.

Indeed no synergy is needed. Just need the cleanest powerful amp which won't degrade the signal.

 

My O2 clips when applying the HT EQ. Theres 9-12db+ increase in the bass frequencies. Which would require a fair amount more power. According to the IF measures the impedance rises even higher to 640/650ohms.

Also, without any EQ the bass is tighter and stronger with the O2 versus the 2vrms output of a DAC like the D1 or Dragonfly Red. Even though they can technically power it to about 108db. Which should give me 18db of headroom. But I don't feel that's correct in practice.

 

Thanks, but I need to use Optical inputs. I have a Geek Out 450 on the way though to compare to the Dragonfly Red.

 

Absolutely. I've read much of Nwavguy's blog posts and I think there's a lot to learn there. But I'm guessing there are things we can't, or more importantly, don't know to measure. My little blind test made me explore these thoughts further and form some new opinions. Then I found some articles on Innerfidelity which correlated with my experience.

 

I have had it clip without any EQ, baring in mind Epiphany Acoustics set the gain to 1x and 6.5x. I made a mistake re EQ, the additional clipping there was due to not reducing the master level to match the EQ increase, as I couldn't achieve 90db at max volume otherwise. Not enough juice

After the blind test I realised that this is god damned hard as hell and I wouldn't expect success at AB-X testing. I don't think our brains work that way, we have an auditory memory of 0.2ms, and it is constantly live EQing what we're hearing, in a sense.

"+12db is x4 more voltage!"
Yup!! And the more powerful amps seem to focus on current output more so than voltage. The little old O2 seems to be the reverse as it can do 7vrms on AC! Many top amps seem to be 7-11.5vrms according to the measurements at IF.

 

It's an odd dichotomy. When you go with your gut you know there's a difference, you can sense with a passionate certainty. But as soon as you try and pinpoint it it's extremely difficult to focus on what that difference and you become less sure that there ever was one. It's almost like trying to catch a ghost. It's doable though which tells me we are at our most accurate at sensing differences when we are least able to reliably pinpoint those differences. Sweet irony. I could talk about this stuff all night. What makes it so interesting is that there isn't definitive way, it's full of subtle variables.

So with the amp for movies stuff. I'd like to understand something better. You recommend keeping it simple for my uses, but in another scenario, perhaps well recorded Jazz or Classical, I gather you would find it worthwhile to move up the ladder. So whats the difference? I'm here for the discourse and to learn as well as seeking amp advice, so no need to simplify.

 

So, any other suggestions? The most votes on the poll tell me I should consider something else, what's on the list is just what I've found, I'm not attached to any of them.

Marvey has kindly suggested the Schiit Magni 2 Uber which I'm aware of and is 2w whereas the Asgard 2 is actually less at 1w. The Magni an opamp design and the Asgard a Class A. (EDIT: Magni is a discrete design, not an opamp design. Thanks Marvey)