Holo Audio - Spring DAC - Level 3 - "Kitsune Tuned Edition" - Impressions & Reviews

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Torq, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Daveheart

    Daveheart Friend

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    There's no reason the Primare wouldn't be fine with either source. I'm not particularly familiar with it, but spec wise, it's fine.
     
  2. SoundSound

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    Thank you very kindly, @Daveheart!

    For us, technically challenged, it is very important to have a “blessing” from a pro…
     
  3. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    KTE 3 has been in the house since Tuesday, just playing random tracks of different bit rates/depths from my library 24/7 via microRendu+LPS-1+(freebie)Holo Titanis USB. SU-1 I2S burn-in/testing still to come, but here are Wednesday vs Sunday impressions, via Jotunheim balanced>Ether C Flow. Wednesday, unsurprising, harsh and unbalanced across the frequency range, but there was already a lot of interesting detail there. Today, strings magic on a varied (random) program: remastered 1959 Mercury Living Presence LSO/Dorati Firebird (highly recommended); Paul Kieffer on lute ("Il Barbarino"); Bsrtók 44 Duos (Sarah and Deborah Nemtanu); a track from Julian Lage and Nels Cline's "ROOM"; and now a double bass solo by Jimmy Garrison in "Ascent," on Coltrane's "Sun Ship" (1965). I'm totally sold. If this is the KTE 3 not fully burned in, sourced with suboptimal USB, and with a (very nice) $400 amp, wow, indeed a good contender for my Yggdrasil downstairs. Update: guitar is so real that it gives me the shivers, and I've been lucky enough to hear lots of guitar live from close by in the last 5 years (must recently Cline and Lage at SFJAZZ). Oh, and jazz drums have better staging and separation than with the Bifrost Multibit, and double bass is more solid, with the subtle resonances between strings and bass body more audible. And the Bifrost Multibit was no slouch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    So, here's for another spendy question. My plan is to take the Bifrost Multibit that this DAC replaces to my work office, and the easiest thing to do is to take the Jot with it as well. So, I'm looking for solid-state balanced headphone amp recommendations that would go especially well with the KTE 3, knowing that I'm very unlikely to be able to demo them with the DAC. Price is not a (huge) consideration, given that I'm aiming for an amp that I'll for a long time. To set the stage, I like the Jot quite a bit better than I liked the LC I had. The LC was a bit too lush for my taste and slightly muddled on the mid-highs. I understand that some well-informed reviewers feel the Jot is too harsh on the highs, but this is not something I hear, maybe it's just a difference in our ear frequency responses (age, damage, ...). What I've liked on the Jot is a (to my hearing) flat response, fast transients. I could do with more soundstage depth, but I'm not sure that's something I can ask of a headphone system given its physical constraints. Oh, and I'm set with the Ether C Flows as headphones, closed is required for my headphone use cases, and they are really comfortable for me. What I've heard with KTE 3>Jot>C Flow convinced me that both amp and headphones had quite a bit of headroom relative to the DAC, so I could even get another Jot if there's no strong evidence that something else would be a substantial step up.
     
  5. NekoAudio

    NekoAudio Acquaintance

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    Reading through this thread, it's not clear to me if anyone ever tried sending the Spring PCM data >44.1kHz? At first blush, I'm hearing a difference between 44.1kHz PCM and the same data upsampled to 88.2kHz.

    On a related note, did anyone experience the Spring not locking onto a new sample rate if the sample rate is changed midstream?
     
  6. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    From my first post in the thread:

    This has not occurred once in the time I've owned my Spring DAC.
     
  7. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    I've used my Spring KTE 3 with PCM rates up to 192kHz, but mostly 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96. These are the rates of the original CD rips or digital downloads. I can't point to a specific difference between the different rates, but then I don't have the same track at two different rates. Subjectively, maybe the lower rates (44.1, 48) sometimes sound a bit warmer and fuzzier, but it could easily be from the recordings or original A2D conversion, not anything to do with the DAC itself.

    Note that upsampling involves a digital filter that could be imparting the differences you hear.

    As for rate switching, I haven't experienced that, but then I mostly listen to full albums where all tracks have the same rate.
     
  8. NekoAudio

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    I'm not gleaning any sample rate information from this paragraph, other than maybe you tried upsampling in HQ Player? What I was asking is more like what @earnmyturns did: sending different PCM sample rates into the Spring while staying in one mode, like staying in NOS. I was leaving the Spring in NOS and changing the sample rate in Audio MIDI Setup, all files 16-bit 44.1kHz.
     
  9. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I tried multiple levels of oversampling (i.e. changing the sample rate), as well as other settings (hence multiple combinations of settings, as stated). I got the best results feeding it native bit rates in NOS mode.

    I didn't think it was necessary to call out every combination I tried, since there was either no improvement or no discernible difference.
     
  10. bengo

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    @NekoAudio If you change the sample rate to 88.2 in Windows control panel, and play a 44.1 file, then you are hearing the Windows OS's software upsampling algorithm. I guess it would be the same for Mac (@Torq is a Mac guy, I'm not). It isn't clear to me from your posts if you really understand this. Most likely these built-in OS algorithms are inferior in sound quality to HQ Player.

    This is different from what @earnmyturns is doing. I tried to highlight the relevant bits in bold. He is playing hi-res files (native 88.2, etc) - assuming he has correctly configured his OS and player software to not upsample - no offence intended, @earnmyturns :)
     
  11. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    No offence taken, who does not make mistakes? But in my case, AFAIK there's never any upsampling, I use Roon with a microRendu endpoint and all Roon DSP settings off.
     
  12. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    That's one of the advantages of Roon, as I understand it - will show if your chain is not bitperfect - it makes it easy for the end user. Some DACs (Naim DAC-V1, PS Audio DirectStream, MSB, even the old Audiolab M-DAC) also have a bitperfect test with special audio tracks.
     
  13. earnmyturns

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    Yes, I check the Roon rendering chain indicator from time to time, always bitperfect. Also, the sampling rate indicator on the Spring's front panel always matches the source material rate, which I can see on the Roon display of the album being played. So, I'm as sure that I'm not using source-side upsampling as is reasonable for something that is not life-or-death ;)
     
  14. NekoAudio

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    Yes, I understand. But thanks for highlighting a relevant point. It is part of the reason I was asking for additional data points from other people. The fact that @Torq didn't hear differences engaging upsampling in HQ Player supports your idea that audible differences may be due to the Mac OS upsampling operation, and not due to the diferent operation of the Spring. At the same time, the fact I do not hear the same differences when doing the same with other DACs would argue against that.

    I suppose I will need to spend more time experimenting.
     
  15. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    First, I didn't say that I didn't hear any differences - I said I either got no improvement or couldn't hear a difference. This varied with exactly what settings were in use. Some were different but not better, others didn't make a difference that I could discern.

    Second, at least with my HQPlayer tests, the macOS internal re-sampling isn't used so it's not even part of that discussion.

    If you change the settings in the Audio/Midi utility, and output via a player that uses the standard CoreAudio path (e.g. iTunes, or other players not operating in "Direct" and "Exclusive" modes), then macOS' own re-sampling routines may be in effect - though if the output from the player, to Core Audio, is already at the specified bit-rate/depth (i.e. you have 24/88.2 up-sampling occurring in your player, and 24/88.2 set in Audio/Midi, then macOS won't RE-sample anything ... that'd only occur if the player was sending lower, or higher, bit-rate/depth content to CoreAudio).

    I don't drive DACs this way as a) I generally find they are at their best when fed un-molested data and b) when that's not the case, it's never been the case that the operating systems built-in resampling (be it Windows or macOS/OS X) has been as good as HQPlayer, Audirvana, Roon etc.

    --

    The best thing to do is download HQPlayer, or Audirvana+, experiment with it, and see what YOU prefer.

    Lots of people claim that upsampling 16/44.1 content to DSD512 results in the second coming. I don't find this. When the difference is audible AT ALL, it's almost never an improvement for me (in this case, for example, you've lost the purported benefits of DSD-as-a-format before you start, so now you're limited to exploiting/resolving strengths/issues with the DAC itself).

    But that's just me.
     
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Sure, HQ Player upsamplers sound different on any decent multibit, NOS DAC. Think of NOS as a blank slate in a sort of way in that regard.

    Same way native 96Khz material will sound different than Redbook content. Though various filters have their own, unique sounds. Doesn't have to be HQ Player either.

    Of course, as someone that prefers NOS, I like to send everything as-is.

    Regarding issues with sample rate changes, can't say I heard the Spring do it, but my transport itself sometimes has bugs like that itself. It happens. Just gotta retry the track.
     
  17. NekoAudio

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    My bad. I read that within the context of my listening experience because I strongly prefer one Audio MIDI Setup sample rate setting over the other. Thanks for re-emphasizing what I missed when reading your statement. All of the source material I used was 16-bit/44.1kHz.
    Yeah, I was able to get the Spring to reset and re-lock by switching to a different track. What was happening is the playback would be at the wrong speed.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Wrong speed playback or skipping glitches happen on my transport. I guess it's the nature of the digital audio beast for there to be occasional bugs somewhere.
     
  19. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Has anyone compared Eitr SPDIF out vs. the SU-1 I2S out on the Holo Spring? Think there is much diff?
     
  20. Clemmaster

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    @Torq did.
    He said the I2S input pulls ahead, regardless of how good the eitr is.
     

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