IEM general discussion thread

anyone know if a female 4.4 TRRRS to 3.5 TRS male adapter exists?
Separately, my PW No 5's cable broke off on one of the mmcx connectors, been regularly used but not abused. Kind of peeved about the questionable build quality. Any recommendations on a similarly sounding cable with decent pricing?
thanks in advance

 

i have pretty good results with Effect Audio Ares II

@gixxerwimp had some issues with his PWA cable as well and PW seems to be willing to fix it for him

 

Can I ask for people's opinions that dislike the Sennheiser ie800s?

I feel like it's all over the place.

Like on the front page: 20. IE800: lean. Treble was hot. Despite being a single DD, sounds very incoherent. WTF was Sennheiser thinking when they finalize this piece of shit??

This sounds to me like what they sound like when you have an awful seal. I would totally describe mine as V-Shaped or warm. Bass is heavy not light... I'm just using the stock tips too, but I know these are really picky depending on the ear shape. Way more bass than my HD800SDRs, like way more , and the treble is less obnoxious.

That impression reminds me of the first time I tried the SE846's and thought they were horrificly bad, but then I tried them with different tips and it changed my opinion.

I'm just curious because I feel like people don't always give them a fair chance along with their other shortcomings. Because to be fair the cable microphonics are ridiculous and the cable is too short. (Or... used to be? I just got a pair back from RMA with a longer cable)

Because I see reviews like this that aren't really overly complementing them, but he liked the sound and also noted too much bass. And from here there are ones like this that admit the tips fit poorly initially.

And don't worry, I'm not some blind fanboy trying to say these are the best things ever, but I wasn't overly impressed by all the other under 1000 dollar options I tried, and was just curious because these seem to get a lot of hate. Maybe my ears are weird, or I like a horribly unbalanced signature.

 

A long time ago when they came out I gave them a try twice (once shortly after launch and another few months after they launched so the shop units should be fairly burnt in), and going off old notes: I found the IE800's harsh in the treble with peaks with boomy not-very-well-controlled bass. Separation was a bit blurry and not very clean. The thing was fairly microphonic and didn't work well over the ear style as well.

 

Was waiting for someone to chime in with suggestions before replying, but Peter was more than willing to swap out the MMXC connectors on my Copper 28 to his new/improved units when one of them became intermittent with my Andros (OK on other IEMs). I'd asked him to change the wood neck-thingy to a heatshrink one at the same time but he forgot (doh!). So he told me I could send them back and he took care of it in about a week (plus shipping time). I think his standard warranty is 1 year, so all you'd be out is shipping from your end I guess.

 

Thanks! I wonder if my ears are just used to the treble after having HD800s...

The bass is strong, but I find it pleasing for rock n roll type stuff. Separation I guess I somewhat discount for iems just because they're so outclassed by over ears, but I think that's a good point.

And haha, if I wear them over ear they don't even reach my pocket... What are your favorite iems/sound sig?

 

thanks, I bought mine through music sanctuary in SG, guess I'll wait and see what they say.
I'm really hoping someone would come out with a 4.4mm> 3.5trs adapter so I can use a yypro tucana cable that i got for wm1a. Now that summer's here it's too impratical to carry the wm1a around without a jacket pocket.

 

Has anyone tried driving the CA Orions out of the Oppo Ha-2? Is the noise floor audible for the Jupiter and Andromeda or should I get the newer SE version?

EDIT: Follow up question, apparently I broke my last pair of CA orions due to over driving them by playing them out of my iPhone 6. Is it because the iphone has a 5 ohm output impedance? From my understanding after some reading online, I can only use the Orions with devices that have an OI 1/8 the impedance of the orions?

Thanks!

 

I bought the Nuforce Primo 8 a couple weeks ago. Originally listed for $500, i saw them listed on Amazon for $250 which I thought was a pretty good price for a quad driver. It was also reviewed by quite a few people in various headphone specific places so I thought it was a safe buy.

First listen with the rubber ear tips sounded kinda like an AM radio. These need Comply tips for sure. After I put on the foam tips the bass improved considerably and I noticed a lot of detail compared to my re-400, however the highs were getting to me. Over time I noticed that at lower volumes it performed fine but at higher volumes the high frequencies were really harsh. While the bass was a bit better with Comply, it was still a bit weaker than I like. The death blow though is when I started doing side by side comparisons with the re-400 and I found myself liking the re-400 far more.

They are getting returned to Amazon and I am looking for something else in the meantime. These we're really my first time with BA IEMs so I wonder if it's the earphones or if I just prefer DD over BAs.

 

Limited experience here, but based on my Westone UM20s and SBAF opinion on Westones in general, I'd guess the earphones.

This is not a recommendation for the UM20. Although I prefer them (with a bit of eq to help the treble) over my RE400s, I prefer my modded* Fostex TE-02ns in all respects but comfort and isolation.

Was going to point you to the ATH-IM02 sale mentioned on the Deals thread, but I see the mentioner was you! Let us know how you like them.

* 'Final+1 -1'; I wasn't brave enough to poke the hole in the membrane.

 

Did a bit of searching here but couldn't find anything. Looking for a 2-pin to MMCX adapter so I can use the Noble X with my incoming MUC-M2BT1. Anyone have any experience with these? So far I've found some on eBay. Wondering if the bend/angle works well as a transition from the adapter to the cable going over the ear.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shure-MMCX-...o-0-78-2-Pins-Converter-Adapter-/142436143110
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shure-Westo...nt-Noble-Audio-2-Pin-IEM-adapter/182220565074
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Converter-P...t-Noble-Audio-2-Pin-IEM-adapter-/252691032995
(I guess the last one is the same as the one on Lunashops' site)

During my search I came across this Franken-CIEM:

 

My current 2pin cable has a similar housing to those adaptors, so if I roughly add the Andro's stock MMCX size to where the connector would go, you'd end up with an inch long thing before a bend.

It's workable, but going to be awkward. "Simulation":

 

@gixxerwimp rhapsodio and PWA both make them

http://www.dcfever.com/trading/view.php?itemID=5518121

https://www.rhapsodiostore.com/products/2pinmmcx-mmcx-2-pin-far-infrared-adaptor

 

In the Andromeda thread there was a brief discussion regarding desktop setups v. DAPs. I have a follow-on question, but figured this was a better place for it.

So my question for the IEM experts: does this apply to most IEMs? Is sensitivity the right measurement to look at in determining this?

 

Oh, I'm not an IEM expert, but I do have some electrical knowledge (just barely enough to know V = IR, honestly). From what I have researched (and please correct me on this), the following have emerged:

1. With regards to IEMs, there are some that employ drivers that are highly sensitive (this is independent of their impedance), and as such, they react even to very small signals that some other IEMs as well as full-size headphones are not sensitive to. Basically: certain super sensitive IEMs tend to pick up on the noise floor of an amplifier (be it a standalone dedicated amp or the amp section of a DAP). Andromeda is a prime example of this, and henceforth, I'm referring mostly to it in this discussion. But please do note: Andromeda does not represent "most IEMs." In fact, I'd even consider it one of the outliers. Basically: I do not think most IEMs will run into the same situation.

2. One thing you can do to remedy the above situation is to essentially "reduce small signals at the output" by using an impedance adapter. This is what I'm guessing IEMatch and other such devices do. They work wondrously, of course, but now you're also killing off certain non-noise signals, and to my ears subjectively, this makes something like Andromeda sound very "dead." It's clean but things go missing from the whole soundscape. Perhaps too much in some cases (like with GO2A).

3. But to pick up on that, I gotta rephrase it: IEMatch is not a "bad device." It's actually very good at what it does (killing off noise floor). The problem is mainly that with sensitive IEMs, you need essentially "less than gain," (sorry, mistook "negative gain" for something else) or in other words, an "attenuator" rather than an "amplifier." What this means is that instead of wanting more signal, more power, you want less signal, and less power, but in a cleaner form. And that's impossible. If the source (DAC) has a relatively high-ish noise floor inherently, that noise floor will inherently mask small signals that are supposed to be details and so on when the DAC has to output a weak signal. "Attenuating" that noise floor will kill small details regardless of whether you use something "active" like a dedicated amplifier with negative gain, or a passive device like IEMatch. Basically: if the DAC, the source, already can't handle that low a signal without introducing noise, then it's pointless to try. (or at least I believe it's pointless)

4. And that's why I don't think a simple amplifier per se will fix Andromeda. Even if the amp is super clean sounding. Note: I may be wrong here. I have read up on some amp designs that essentially do something like pre-amping signal to defeat the noise floor and then do attenuation afterward at output. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to tell how effective such a design is, but in so far as what I have experienced plugging Andromeda into different amplifiers, the results have not been very encouraging. This one probably needs to be revisited later.

5. This brings us to DAPs vs DACs. I believe DACs in general are designed for desktop usage, meaning... the signal coming from them is expected to be strong, and higher in value, or basically, enough such that only moderate gain has to be applied on the amplifier's side and you get a signal that's "strong enough" for most full-size headphones to sound "decently loud" (subjectively to most people at least, but there are of course outlier cases where people want even more gain). As such, "noise floor" is not something that designers have to be concerned with as even the "small signals" coming out of a DAC greatly eclipse the noise floor in this application. I'm sure you can just take a gander at most DACs' measurements to be able to tell that most of the time, unless something is super wrong, you won't really see anything less than absolute perfection. Basically, I believe DACs are targeted toward a "different kind of application" than IEMs.

6. As for DAPs, some are designed with IEMs in mind. I have at least opened up a few DAPs to be able to tell that their "amplifier section" essentially is just like a "current buffer" to supply slightly more power than what the DAC chips are pushing out, but essentially, they are basically like DACs attached to storage, a simple computer, a battery, an a "power buffer" section. The design makes it clear they are not expected to drive HE-6 or AKG K1000 or HD800 by any stretch of imagination. For these DAPs, designed with IEMs in mind, I believe "noise floor" is a more important consideration for designers, and as such, the really good ones tend to have very good "noise floor." Also to say, most of these things use batteries, which tend to have less noise than your desktop gears plugged into a main anyway.

7. So hence why I said "different use cases for different things" above. I believe DAPs designed for IEMs specifically will tend to be better (at least with certain IEMs) than desktop gears, simply on the merits of their design philosophy. And this doesn't take into account "synergy," of course, which I intentionally left out of what I stated because I think "synergy" is more subjective, and some may be perfectly happy with their phones driving Andromeda, for instance. In fact, with the right cable, the right ear tips, and the right "filter" for Andromeda, I'd be happy using my iPhone 6+ with Andro, too. It's not like it's a super horrible solution. Just that for myself personally, I have experienced what "better" (ZX2) truly sounds like, and going back from "better" is somewhat harder for me now. The difference is massive. But again, that's just me, and most of it has nothing to do with technicality in this case, although to my ears, the ZX2 does have less hiss, less noise, and more details as well as a cleaner sound than the iPhone.

So... TL;DR: no, I don't think this applies to most IEMs, but to sensitive IEMs like Andromeda, there may be merits to taking into account more of the technical side. DAC/amps designed for desktop use are not bad. I just think they are ill-suited for something like Andromeda, but I stand to be corrected because I believe there are ways to make DAC/amps that will work also with Andromeda. But in the end, none of this truly matters. These are just my thoughts. You should try your favorite IEMs with whichever source gears (DAC/amp/DAP/phone/etc...) that you find to sound good for you, and that's all that should matter. Do not listen to me (please!).

P.S.: side note, I actually did not warm up to Andromeda the first time I listened to them either. It wasn't until way later that I actually tried them again out of... curiosity (seriously!) and some months of tip rolling and experimenting later, I found the right combination for myself. Then it took me up until just recently (a few weeks ago) to grab a Sony ZX2 to finalize the system. So yeah, I wasn't actually considering Andro's technical side at all while I was building a system around it. The conclusion I wrote above is the reflection of my experience despite all of the technical stuffs I have just researched for this answer, and I only selected what most closely reflected my experience more so than anything else.

That's the cool part about the hobby for me: the exploration and research and analysis that lead up to a point where I get to understand my gears better both on the subjective and objective side. But I certainly just need to be subjectively happy with the gears, and so that's my ultimate advice to some who may be reading the above: just disregard it and go find something that sounds good to you.

Now please excuse me while I try to add a capacitor to my Andro's cable to see if it'll sound better or worse.

 

I'd think it's a relatively simple matter of noise floor, gain, output impedance and the impedance and sensitivity of the phone. I think BA IEMs are all pretty much similarly efficient (IEMs are incredibly efficient compared to speakers anyway, on the order of 140db/W equivalent. Most dynamic driver headphone also have similar efficiency, on the order of 130db/W. According to my measurements HD800 is around 132db/W and Utopia around 129db/W efficient at 500Hz.)

Andromeda just has an unbelievably low impedance across the whole lower midrange which makes it so prone to hiss. Where the Andromeda has a 4 Ohm impedance the UERM is at 50+ Ohms. For the most part the Andromeda's impedance stays below 10 Ohms. It's highly sensitive, but its efficiency isn't anything special compared to other IEMs.

 

just saw this on a japanese site, new iem from "ex"? iriver engineer

http://www.aiuto-jp.co.jp/azla/

coax BA/DD hybrid drivers

 

Is Ken able to repair your broken Orions? Even if out of warranty, he'll still service his IEMs for the life of the product. Just gotta pay parts/labor.

 

Those are beautiful. Wonder how they sound.