ifi-audio pro iCAN - any thoughts?

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by AllanMarcus, Jun 3, 2016.

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  1. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Had the a similar exe
    I had a similar experience. For some reason on default 0 gain the amp sounds more "U" shaped with bass and highs accentuated. On 9db gain, everything sounds more neutral to my ears. Maybe give that a try.
     
  2. Armaegis

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    Will do, though in my experience my initial thoughts are generally pretty close to my final thoughts (although I'd be happy to be wrong).

    Overall I don't think it's "bad"; I'm just very nitpicky when I get into the critical mindset.
     
  3. gbeast

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    edit:
    misread
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  4. AllanMarcus

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  5. Armaegis

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    After two more days and another set of ears listening with me and comparing with some other toys, my initial assessments remain unfazed. My friend who came over today for a two hour session started off super pumped and thinking he was definitely going to buy one. By the end of the two hours... not so much.
     
  6. gbeast

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    It's better than the HP-1 that's for sure.
     
  7. Armaegis

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    Not to my ears. I would give the easy nod to the HP-1 for sound quality.

    The iCAN is decent, but I wouldn't recommend it. If they took away all the fiddly knobs and charged a quarter the price, maybe. Perhaps I just haven't found the right combinations yet, but after a few days of playing extensively with all the settings and several different headphones and different sources, the only extra setting I think is passable is the first bass boost. Everything else doesn't sound right and muddies the sound.
     
  8. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    ^ I def agree on the settings of the Pro iCan, I liked the 1st bass boost(you know me:p) but I only liked the first tube setting occasionally.

    Pro vs Cayin

    Pro had better: depth, microdynamics, transparency, blackground, layering, tonal density, lower midrange presence, percussiveness, refinement, treble texture, and realism.
    Cayin better: speed, treble quantity, upper midrange presence, air, matchability (control over a larger variety of headphones)
    Winner - Pro

    Cayin vs HP-1
    Cayin had better: speed, layering, depth, openness, microdynamics, transient response, decay, air (treble extension)
    HP-1: better tonality, less grainy, negligibly cleaner, less treble fatigue
    Winner - Cayin

    The 3:
    Pro>Cayin>>HP-1

    Build: Pro/Cayin>>>>HP-1
    Price to Performance: Joti>>>Cayin>>Pro>>>HP-1

    Despite our differences of opinion, I think it's really cool though that the ican has something close to tone controls. Sure it's only the bass you can turn the 'treble down' with the tube options ....kinda...but a small step in the right direction.
     
  9. neogeosnk

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  10. Armaegis

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    After another week, my feelings on the iCAN are still less than enthused. I've tried both high sensitivity and low sensitivity planars and dynamics (no iems yet), in both single ended and balanced mode. I've spent a lot of time playing with the preamp and the "3D Holographic" whachamacallits too since it's different for speakers vs headphones. I've rotated through three sets of speakers from bookshelf to studio monitors.

    I want to like this thing. It's a nice compact form (which is important in my books), it has all these neat features, and overall it doesn't sound bad... but I just don't grok the price to performance aspect. It doesn't grab me. All the extra features, while cool, detract from sound quality rather than add to it from my perspective.
     
  11. pyu

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    I auditioned it a week ago during my lunch hour at Stereo Electronics using the in house HD800 they had. This was out of the single ended port.

    Reviewer's tilt: The amps I have experience with is just the Liquid Carbon (my main amp for over a year now) and the micro iDSD before that. My daily workhorse is the Kaiser 10 universals (the aluminium version) from an iPhone 6S plus.

    Stereo Electronics offered a wide range of music to auditioned it with and I spent about 30 minutes with the Pro iCan in tube mode - though after some research afterwards, it could have still been in the solid state mode since that is what iFi said in the manual. Due to a lack of time, I did not auditioned it with a LCD-X or even with my Kaiser 10 universals which is my daily workhorse from my mobile phone.

    First of all, the amp is definitely very good. I came away thinking that this amp is very musical and definitely more "in your face" (in a good way I think) with more energetic transients and a hint of sparkle. The treble slanted towards sibilance when I reached the usual Diana Krall tracks but I suspected was probably due to the HD800 than the amp itself.

    Stereo had the Sony TA-ZH1ES available as well and hopefully when I come back with my HD800 (with newly installed Superdupont Resonator mod!), I can leverage on that to do some comparisons.
     
  12. Armaegis

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    Another random observation from me: Balanced inputs sound better (more punch, more definition, particularly up top), but have a higher noise floor when using single ended output. This noise is affected by the pot but not the gain switch. This might be related to weird power issues in my home; I can't say for certain. In any event it's rather moot since this is only when you turn the pot up which is going to be well beyond what any comfortable listening level would be.
     
  13. Armaegis

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    Posted this over at audiocircle, but thought I would copy it here:

    **********************

    I had the iFi Pro iCAN on loan for a few weeks and have assembled my notes below. They will remain mostly in point form, because no one wants to read an essay. I ran it through a fairly extensive gamut of different headphones and speakers.

    Since there is a lot of "stream of consciousness" in these notes, it would be prudent to not examine any particular section by itself. At the very least, read the section immediately above it so you know where the relevant comparison is coming from.

    Also be aware that in point form, my notes are very nitpickish. I do not dispense with pleasantries here, and my editing will be minimal. This is simply the style of my note-taking, so don't get your knickers in a knot if you disagree with something.


    Main equipment used for evaluation:
    Hifiman HE-6: well known as the most power hungry brute in the headphone world, and serves as my main reference can, low-ish impedance and stupid low sensitivity
    Sennheiser HD650: my other reference can, and should be well known by most headphone users, high impedance and medium sensitivity
    Sennheiser HD598: little brother of the HD650; horrible impedance curve
    Nuforce HEM8: multi driver iem, low impedance high sensitivity
    Fostex TH-x00 Purpleheart: closed, low impedance medium-high sensitivity
    Bryston B60 - integrated speaker amp and my primary amp for the HE-6
    Prism Lyra and Prism Callia - both pro level dac/amp, the latter being the "hifi" version with a more powerful amp
    RME ADI-2 Pro - pro level dac/amp
    iFi iCAN Pro - well d'uh
    Stereoknight transformer based balanced preamp


    Reviewer Bias:
    - purist
    - leans to preferring dry/clinical sounds
    - snarky


    Build Quality
    - chassis overall very nice build quality; no complaints here
    - casing is solid and feels good
    - large rubbery pad on the bottom isolates it from the desk
    - good feel to the volume knob
    - very slight play to all knobs/switches, but nothing unreasonable
    - gets warm but not hot; avoid stacking though, especially if it's a component underneath that needs to breathe since the rubber pad will insulate
    - remote: cheap plastic thing, it works most of the time but doesn't seem to detect sometimes depending on angle
    - switches are good, stick out just enough to be functional but not feel too fiddly or obtrusive


    First listening impressions
    - first: hey this is nice
    - later: new toy syndrome has worn off, still good but not as enthused
    - kinda brutish, not an ogre, but more Fezzik than Inigo Montoya
    - I have a really hard time matching volume, because the iCAN "feels" louder all the time
    - overall feels slightly on the V-shaped side (both warmer yet brighter)


    On the inputs/outputs:
    - the actual switching mechanism itself is quite seamless
    - use the balanced XLR inputs; they sound so much better than the single ended
    - I'm certain it's not my source, because mine does both and I've evaluated on other gear and found the differences to be marginal*
    - single ended seems muted and loses energy (especially treble) and impact/punch compared to balanced inputs
    * however, I cannot fully discount that this is a function of how my source is interacting with the iFi inputs
    - but noise floor is higher with balanced input while using single ended output... not sure why this is; could be a cabling or power thing but it's unusual and I can't fully track it down
    - switching inputs (both with nothing connected or the same source connected to both xlr and rca), there is a higher inherent noise from the balanced inputs which is opposite from expected
    - however this noise is not affected by gain
    - but it is affected by the pot... so the origin of the noise is coming from in between? It's not a huge problem, so I'm not chasing it down anymore after this
    - balanced output is always quiet, regardless of input


    Noise floor:
    - not detectable with HE-6 (no surprise there)
    - very slight noise floor with HD650 on balanced low gain with volume turned up all the way (can't tell with music)
    - more noticeable with HEM8, but again it's low enough that your music would be deafening by the time you reached audible levels of noise



    Impressions with HE-6
    Note that my primary amp with the Hifiman HE-6 is the Bryston B60 which is a speaker amp. Most of my comparisons will be against that unless otherwise noted. Yes the HE-6 is a power hungry beast, so that makes it a good stress test so to speak.


    General musings:
    - in single ended mode, Callia and iCAN are somewhat close, with iCAN carrying more grunt but Callia feels more refined
    - in balanced the iCAN pulls closer to the Callia in refinement
    - Callia headamp is cleaner (single ended) while iCAN seems stronger and punchier (same impression from both HEM8 and HE-6)


    Initial thoughts on Balanced vs single ended (HE-6) with the various options:
    - no issues with power in either single ended or balance, it gets plenty loud
    - initial feelings on all the various options and knobs: I am not a fan
    - the character of the various settings actually changes depending on single ended or balanced
    - typically I found myself preferring balanced solid state
    - the two tube modes seemed stronger in single ended mode; going to balanced seemed to take out some of that tubeyness or changed the tone to something odd
    - on Xbass and 3D most of the time the first setting is ok-ish, but anything higher I did not like



    Mode: Solid State (single ended)
    - does not hit as hard as the Bryston B60 (but more than Prism Callia)
    - slightly more sibilant yet softer at the same time; the initial "sss" is stronger but the trail is softer or drawn out
    - midbass has a slightly hollow impact (sort of like emphasized at both edges); I can see how this might make people feel it is more detailed and impactful
    - so maybe this is simply how it handles a transient; harder front edge, perhaps more overshoot then followed by ringing?
    - initial feeling is more air and more zing, but this fades after some time
    - coming back to B60 immediately feels fuller and more balanced, even though it's hard to quantify and doesn't have the same "kick" as the iCAN
    - overall prefer solid state over tubes after listening back and forth


    Mode: Solid State (balanced)
    - more power, seems to have more control
    - feels a bit more full bodied, but it's a very slight difference here
    - midrange presence seems slightly smoother, but marginally so
    - upper range unaffected
    - still doesn't feel as full as the B60, but brings a bit more kick to the game
    - if I had to pick one mode of the six possibilities, it would be this one


    Mode: Tube (single ended)
    - definitely not neutral
    - you can easily tell there's a bass hump/harmonics
    - more thump (different from kick), but softer on edges
    - pretty much what you expect of a stereotypical tube sound
    - you'd think this would be nice on music that was a little bass light... but adding those harmonics into stuff that doesn't have it in the first place doesn't work and you get a harmonic warmth but not any actual body; it actually makes those mids feel... not quite honky, but too thick


    Mode: Tube (balanced)
    - less hump, less thump
    - seems like less of a deviation from normal compared to single ended
    - still warmer compared to solid state, but in a different way than the single ended mode
    - let me rephrase... feels like warmer with a tilt?
    - perhaps slightly cleaner sounding than single ended, but tone is slightly offput
    - I find myself marginally preferring single ended over balanced in tube mode


    mode: tube+ (balanced)
    - so I thought: ok if you're gonna go tube, might as well go all the way???
    - seems like richer deeper sound? nope I lied, that's not what I get
    - not any thumpier or softer
    - but definitely an extra harmonic or something that pulls on the ear in an odd way; I'm guessing it's odd order harmonics here
    - upper end feels less refined
    - it's not a treble glare, but maybe a high order distortion product
    - I actually feel like this one is more fatiguing than regular Tube mode
    - not sharp, but seems kinda hissy/sibilant
    - feels like... a delay in the upper registers? (rather than harmonics?)


    mode: tube+ (single ended)
    - ok this one seems richer compared to balanced
    - adds more warmth
    - too much of a "good thing"
    - midbass steps forward
    - does not tame bright recordings; just smooshes it out
    - feels like a reverb
    - even as an outside listener while someone else is wearing the headphones, I could tell this sounded different



    Crossfeed / 3D Holographic:
    - bleh? maybe I'll try a different song... nope, still bleh. Maybe a different setting, wow nope wtf is going on. Let's try a mono recording... nope, now it's just further away.
    - loses impact and sharpness
    - I do consistently feel that there's less "centre", but it comes at the expense of everything else.
    - Let's not pretend that we're emulating speakers here. I prefer the stock crossfeed plugin on Jriver, or better yet just get the free ToneBoosters Isone Pro vst plugin (but this requires all the software shenanigans)
    30: dips the middle
    60: dips the middle more
    90: boosts the edges
    - really not much more to say here; overall this mode did nothing for me
    - but note for later, this feature redeems itself a bit on the preamp outputs


    XBass:
    - oh the lowest setting is kinda nice... but the others are just too much; in fact distractingly so
    - even with metal recordings which I find are typically mastered bass light, the boost just didn't seem right
    - you can't use this to correct for bass deficient headphones, because then you're pushing past what the headphones are really capable of and it turns into a muddled and distorted mess
    - on bass-light recordings... eh I guess sorta it works, but you can't really amplify something that isn't in the recording
    - so really this is only ok with bass capable headphones but bass-light recordings, and only on the first setting
    - this feels like a bit more than just a typical EQ bass shelf, like maybe there's a tiny bit of harmonics added in too? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some crossfeed effect happening too, but don't know that for certain and am purely guessing here
    - I suppose if you're in the "MOAR BASS" category of listeners then you'll be happy with this; I tried this using some bass heavy Fostex TH-X00 Purplehearts which are already bass heavy and this was simply too much



    Gain (level match as much as possible by ear and multimeter)
    - I'm surprised that it seemed like there were differences here
    - low: kinda weaker? vocals seem slightly strained, but smoothest mid and treble, least impact
    - med: "stringier" (not necessarily bad per se) upper end, impact seems cleaner
    - high: hissier and slightly more sibilant, impact same as medium or ever slightly stronger, feels a bit like midbass boost again
    - overall I stuck with Medium gain as my favourite and most of my listening was done here



    Impressions with Sennheiser HD650
    - all the fiddly knob stuff is less disagreeable on HD650 than the HE-6, like it's not as sensitive/resolving
    - initial impressions seemed positive, but this dissolved after fifteen minutes
    - soft touch/edges
    - I thought it would be warmer but that's not the case
    - still sounds brighter compared to my Bryston, it's not a "tss" sound but the trailing edges have a slight upturn to them
    - resolution is ok, but not the best I've heard with the HD650
    - Lorde - Royals: good kicks, but metallic, snaps don't have the body that they should
    - all above impressions in solid state mode (balanced)
    - Tube mode (balanced): ahh wtf?? distorted wonk wonk wonk
    - Tube+ mode (balanced): huh better, like returning more to solid state, less sibilant, but slightly more fatiguing than regular tube mode
    - SS mode (SE): sounds about the same as balanced, maybe a touch more metallic
    - Tube mode (SE): warmer, hazier, this is the softest sound of all the modes and configs
    - Tube+ mode (SE): too much harmonic, almost feels like an echo? even fuzzier, loses kick; vastly prefer balanced in this mode
    - overall I do no not recommend the HD650 with this amp; it was not an ideal pairing


    Other headphones:

    Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart (single ended only)
    - this is a bassy headphone going into what I feel is a somewhat bassy amp...
    - as expected combo produces too much bass overall for my tastes, but could be fun for others
    - Xbass: too much; it overwhelms
    - crossfeed: meh... too mushed with all the bass, it just makes things feel hollow in the middle and flabby everywhere else
    - tube mode: is ok, definition goes down, but rumble and thump increase (no surprise there); if I wanted to go for a stereotypically tubey sound with lots of warmth, this is it
    - tube+ mode: also ok; it's just softly thumpier, same definition as regular tube mode but has a softer tonality, not warmer but low end feels stretched out, upper end
    - this would be a basslover combo


    Fostex T50rp (single ended)
    - just not a good match
    - top end feels withdrawn regardless of setting
    - midrange is there, but feels detached
    - bass hits quite hard, this was about the only part I lked
    - tons of power, but it simply didn't mesh well
    - I gave up on this


    Sennheiser HD598
    - very similar tone as the HD650
    - similar changes with the various settings, but overall effects are less so and this seems to work in its favour
    - I would pick the 598 over the 650 with this amp
    - solid state: single ended is good, balanced feels somewhat tubbier
    - tube balanced: not as wonky as the HD650; I can tolerate this one
    - tube SE: warmer, softer, lazy-ish
    - tube+ balanced: like a slightly edgier solid state
    - tube+ SE: mush mush mush, stick with balanced
    - crossfeed is actually no too bad, the middle doesn't dip as much, overall feel is more like a sideways stretch
    - Xbass: it's weird that the 598 feels more comfortable boosting bass than it's big brother 650; still not my cup of tea, but it's workable here


    NuForce HEM8 (from the 3.5mm jack)
    - the 3.5mm jack is lower in volume compared to the 6.5mm
    - congested? what the heck is going on? I'm having trouble trying to do a volume match because something doesn't sound right
    - no seriously, what's wrong with this thing... is it broken?
    - loses cohesion
    - snaps and plucks are in the wrong place in time???
    - is this just some sort of L-pad going on to bring the level down? feels like something more than that
    - in any event, the sound is a mess and I'm abandoning this
    - reading the manual... oh this is the iEMatch thing? I have no idea what that's supposed to be, but it's clearly not working for me

    3.5mm jack with Fostex T50rp
    - not as messed up as the HEM8, but still feels slightly muted


    NuForce HEM8 from regular TRS
    - ok, so right away this is miles better than the 3.5mm output
    - seems a bit bassier
    - does not feel as neutral as my NuPrime uDSD
    - midrange is flatter, treble has good extension if very very slightly upturned
    - slightly cloudy in resolution...
    - REVISED: balanced inputs cleans this up (don't know why, but the above when I was using single ended inputs the sound sucked)
    - overall tone still slightly fuzzy, but not cloudy like before
    - overall tone balanced is restored
    - Callia headamp is less stuffy, like a veil has been lifted
    - midrange clarity improved, feels much better and breathes
    - bass hits harder and cleaner now
    - all above noted with solid state mode
    - tube mode: there's a tradeoff here... seems cleaner up top but muddier down low
    - tube+ mode: wow big pop when switching mode here so be careful; did not get any cleaner like tube mode but did not get muddier either... but sounds withdrawn
    - actually just be careful with sensitive iems with the knobs; they all seem to produce pops when changing modes
    - Xbass: even 1st notch seems too much, 3rd notch gets distorted
    - 3D: 1st notch collapses the middle stage and becomes withdrawn, 2nd notch not much different, 3rd notch adds elements to the side (but lower, unlike speakers which was placed higher) but still sounds artificial; overall staging feels better with this turned off
    - Callia headamp is cleaner (single ended) while iCAN seems stronger and punchier



    Impressions on Speakers

    Speaker "3D Holographic" settings from the preamp outputs:
    - does not have the middle dip like with headphones; general balance is better
    - staging is better preserved than with headphones

    + mode: it's ok, seems to add more air? very tiny smear but yeah I guess it feels like a different room or speaker setting; placement of side instruments moves further out and slightly up; with a mono vocal and my speakers slightly offset, I can hear this distortion effect like a comb filter? (yes this happens with offset, but I've never heard it this apparent before and it disappears with the crossfeed turned off)
    30+: feels like a reverb now, angle doesn't really change but speakers have moved further away
    60+: really pulls it out to the side, it's gone past reverb and is almost like an echo; instrument location has moved further behind and up, a bit like I have some satellite speakers in a surround mode behind me; the middle is a bit of a weird null zone

    - overall 3D effect is less noticeable in Tube and Tube+ mode

    - with desktop speakers the effect is very noticeable; likely most of the processing occurs in the upper registers of the frequency range, so the entire speaker and staging flies out to the side
    - the various bookshelf speakers I tried exhibited mostly similar behaviours (main ones I had on hand: Celsus Sound SP-One, Centrance Masterclass 2504, John Blue JB3)
    - the one that sounded best was my John Blue JB3 which feels like a horn and has a very narrow sweet spot; the + mode expanded this and gave it more space (almost too much air, though the speaker veers that way to begin with)

    Larger speakers used: Genelec 1030, Yorkville YSM8, Yorkville U15 (full sized PA cabinets), a couple Paradigm bookshelves
    - with larger full range speakers that have a deeper reach, the 3D spatialization is not quite so drastic since the lower energy range doesn't move, thus helps keep things in place
    - but the effect here is that I felt like I moved closer to the speakers (increasing effective angle) rather than have the speakers widen out
    - it's still a bit hazy and/or feels buzzy out at the furthest edges and raised up higher (again like I have some small satellites above and behind me, though their location is much higher here than compared to the desktop movement); the middle isn't a null zone like with bookshelf speakers, but does feel squishy
    - the better the bass reach of the speaker, the less egregious the effect of the spatialization
    - sub integration is kinda odd though; I feel like I'm getting phase discrepancies and walking around the room feels weird, so it's probably better to stick with a regular 2.0-ch setup rather than 2.1

    - but overall I find it easier to adjust my ears to the speakers with the 3D effects; with headphones it just doesn't work for me



    XBass speakers:
    - if you're trying this on desktop speakers, you're gonna push them past what they're capable of and get a horrible mess because you're just distorting the speakers
    - this did not sound good with any of my small bookshelf speakers
    - on speakers with very good bass extension, you'll get rumble but not impact, it does feel deeper but also like you're in a bass bubble
    - my Genelecs gained body, but still the strain was showing
    - with my full range Yorkville PA speakers, this was generously room filling
    - like on headphones, I find the first notch ok, 2nd is passable, but third is way way too much
    - also similar to my headphone assessment, this setting really only works when you have bass-capable speakers and bass-light recordings.



    How about as preamp?
    - I wish there were a way to mute the preamp outputs
    - all the fiddly knobs pass through in their own way
    - not as transparent as the Stereoknight (but this is one of the best preamps I've ever heard); feels slightly mushier in comparison
    - SS (balanced out) - soft yet a bit hard somehow; feels like a slight V emphasis
    - tube (balanced out) - softens the sound, sharp plucks and twangs are smoothed out
    - tube+ (balanced out) - actually less soft than regular tube mode; there's roundness to the sound but not warmth
    - SS (SE) - same as balanced; maybe just a tiny bit more definition?
    - tube (SE) - ever so slightly different flavour from balanced but hard to describe
    - tube+ (SE) - more warmth than balanced
     
  14. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Oddly, I don't get any pops, even with my IEMs (Shure SE846, Empire Ears Zeus R) or those I've tried (entire Lime Ears range, AAW W900, W500 etc.), no matter what controls I manipulate. If I manipulate them with the IEMs removed from my ears I can hear the relays switching when engaging X-Bass and 3D+, but with them in my ears there are no pops or clicks or anything else that would suggest something had switched (beyond the change in the sound).

    I wonder if this is another QC issue with the iFi stuff or if it's just down to different IEMs (since we have no cross-over in what we've listened with).

    But, I would say, the mere fact that even one person is reporting pops when switching settings definitely gives reason to be cautious when doing so!
     
  15. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    No pops here either, quality control issue for sure.
     
  16. PeteMullersKeyboard

    PeteMullersKeyboard New

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    This has been a very interesting thread, lots of good info.

    @Torq - Given your experience and the fact that you perhaps seem to have similar preferences in sound signature, would love to hear your opions on iCan Pro vs. Rag for the LCD4. I'm on the verge of purchasing the Ifi for mine, although I've recently come across a Rag for a great price as well. From what I'm reading, given my preference for a bit more warmth, the Ifi might be the way to go. Also, the features are interesting and I imagine the single-ended output is better than Rag's. Currently using a Mojo for DAC....at some point would be interested in the Spring DAC. I'd love to audition either but...currently no way to do that.
     
  17. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I don't think I'd, personally, want to make anything "warmer" if I was using LCD-4 as my headphone and Mojo as my source

    For one, that combination would mean that the "X-Bass" feature on the iFi Pro iCAN wouldn't get used (it doesn't now, for me, even with a much more neutral source and the LCD-4 doesn't need help in the bass). Then the LCD-4 isn't the best candidate for the "3D" functionality, either. And you'll probably wind up not wanting to use the tube-modes on the iFi with that combination either. I think you'd wind up with something that sounded a little thick and syrupy rather than lush and fluid.

    So, at least for me, that'd be a situation where I was comparing the Pro iCAN in the context of it being just a balanced SS amp. And I think the iFi unit is harder to justify, price-wise, if you're not going to use most of the functionality, such as with a stable of cans that can benefit from it's chameleonic capabilities.

    I would not be concerned about the differences in performance when operating Ragnarok in SE mode vs. keeping it balanced end-to-end with Mojo as a source. In general I wouldn't be that concerned about it anyway, but in this case anything that was going to be "lost"* there is going to be lost before the amplifier is a factor here.

    Spring DAC (if run in NOS mode at least) + Pro iCAN + LCD-4 is probably going to keep you in SS territory for the iFi amp as well**. And that'd just lead me to look at other amplifier options entirely. Either a neutral-and-fast tube amp (maybe a Decware Taboo IV), or something like the Mjolnir 2 with LISST. Unless you need/want the speaker output ... and then Ragnarok is a shoe-in.

    --
    *It's not that much is ... just that the topology of the Ragnarok means the delta between SE and Balanced operation is larger than with other designs.
    **Spring DAC + Pro iCAN in Tube+ mode into, say, HD800S or Utopia, maybe even Abyss is lovely. A bit too much with the LCD-4 though, I feel.
     
  18. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    If this thing was about 60% the cost, I'd be legitimately interested in it. I secretly quite like the iFi micro-ICAN SE and use it as my main amp at work.
     
  19. PeteMullersKeyboard

    PeteMullersKeyboard New

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    Thanks for the reply, really appreciate it. Mostly I try to approximate what every piece of gear I'm interested in might sound like based on reading as many things as possible. Sort of works, but there's definitely risk. On the surface I'd tend to agree with you, although I am extremely, extremely sensitive (and averse) to brightness or "sheen" of any kind. Hell, I heard a pair of LCDXs out of a BHA-1 and I thought it to be almost painful. I've heard an LCD3F out of a couple Ray Samuels amps and thought "it could use just a bit less at the very, very top" - so I'm not sure if that makes me an outlier or not, genuinely don't know. There's even recordings that make the LCD4 sparkle a bit too much (to me) so I pick it up quickly. Anyone's guess how I ended up with a pair of HD700s as well...


    Most I've spoken to have loved their iCan Pro with LCD4s but then again I'm not sure how many other amps they've used with them. Have heard nothing but good things. If we're comparing SS to SS, do you find the Rag to be superior to the iCan in slam, punch, resolution, soundstage? Those are also things I value quite a bit, I suppose you're right that if a Spring DAC was the front end the neutrality of the Rag might be the preferred way to go. Really I'm just curious how the sound stacks up between the two in other ways, as that would help make the decision. Speaker use might be cool, have thought about a pair of desktop monitors in the future as well.
     
  20. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    It's not the Pro iCAN/LCD-4 combination that's an issue. It's combining both of those with a warmer/sweeter sounding source. Where as with a source like Yggdrasil or DirectStream DAC, you'd be able to use the tube and SS modes, and maybe the bass settings for a useful array of different signatures, with something like Mojo or the Spring DAC the combination would, at least for me, wind up with the Pro iCAN living in pure SS mode to avoid excessive warmth/darkness and lack of "life".

    Where that's the case, I don't think the $1699 asking price of the Pro iCAN is nearly as justifiable as it is when you can exploit the full gamut of the thing. You could get very close to that level of pure-SS performance with a $399 Jotunheim (though you might find that's a bit steely). Yes, the iFi unit does sound better, but not 4.25x better. And at least with the Mojo your DAC will hold the whole thing back anyway.

    Of course, if you really want a darker, denser, richer sound then Mojo/Spring DAC -> iFi Pro iCAN in Tube+ mode -> LCD-4 would definitely be one way to get it. That'd be way too dark and lacking in life and air for me though.
     

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