Jotunheim technical measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifier Measurements' started by atomicbob, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    It varies by measurement. Here are some examples:
    4096 - Signal / Noise
    8192 - THD
    65536 - Dual Tone

    If you are looking for process gain then these measurements would have
    33 dB - S/N
    36 dB - THD
    45 dB - Dual Tone

    So the difference in process gain between those examples are 12 dB maximum.
     
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  2. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    I just ran across this thread…

    And after hearing the little beasty, I gotta say this amp is crazy good.

    I like Bob's summation of it being, "a wire with gain", as it seems to have no character of it's own.
    Which means if the output is a problem, look elsewhere for the culprit.

    JJ
     
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  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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  4. MattRG

    MattRG Almost "Made"

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    What's been amazing to me is the Jotunheim's ability to resolve details. It's as clear as a bell and has given me many "wow" moments just in the short time that I have owned it.
     
  5. Whipples

    Whipples Rando

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    The first time I put London Philharmonic through the amp I felt like I was sitting right in front of the orchestra. It has brought joy to genres I never really spent time listening to before!
     
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  6. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Measurements look awesome! I've been recommending Audio GD for a good mid Range Balanced Amp/Dac for a long time now, good to see Schiit is now competing in that price bracket and market segment! Good competition will hopefully drive the market towards better options for everyone!
     
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    Sagaheim is a powerful combination. I am currently rocking a PS Vane 6SN7 in the Saga with Jotenheim.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  8. ckwong

    ckwong Rando

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    Great work! Appreciate reading through threads like these.

    I'm curious how long you have the amp powered on before you run your testing? Wondering if you have ever compared cold Jot measurements to one that's been left on for a couple of days.
     
  9. wrestler

    wrestler Rando

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    [curious] Which part of these measurements can you attribute to the treble glare that most people experience with this amp? Is it because of low THD across the frequency range and people have calibrated their ears to warmer amps? Another way to ask this question: What makes warmer amps warm?
     
  10. atomicbob

    atomicbob Friend

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    Measurement system and device under test usually get one hour unless specifically noted otherwise (such as a few of the DACs.) The measurements are long enough in duration to preclude making such a cold / warm measurement unless only a few attributes are measured. I spend a day typically in measuring a single device.

    I'll let someone else answer that. I'm just the measurement messenger.
     
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  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    This is one of the problems with people who are "if you can't measure it, you can't hear it" fundamentalism. There's plenty of stuff we can hear in a reproducible manner which we can't yet "find" in measurements. "Warmer" may be one of the easier ones for people to establish, to do with overall FR, emphasising lower frequencies at the expense of the higher, and I'm sure that's part of it, but the full picture could be a perceptual soup- does impulse response affect it? Are there specific frequencies, sets of frequencies or relationships between them that strongly cause this perception? Is the trope about even order harmonic distortion at all relevant and true?

    Correlating a good set of measurements to perceptions is hard. I don't blame @atomicbob for quietly letting others argue the toss with the usual hand-waving. He's done his bit.

    Measurements are still just part of the picture, even when carried out very well. They're but one tool in the arsenal of a good amp designer. They're great for finding out why something really sucks, for refining and improving technical behaviour of a system and plain old checking that stuff looks right within tolerances too. Judgement and taste can be useful extra arrows in your quiver.

    Often, tuning an amp to sound "great" ends up as an almost aesthetic set of trade-offs about things like feedback, linearity and distortion for some amp designers and engineers. Most of them know their way around their measuring rigs, they're a tool of the trade. At the the end of the day, though, many also use their ears and judgement, as well as those of other trusted listeners.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018 at 2:07 PM
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  12. wrestler

    wrestler Rando

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    Oh absolutely. Measurements may explain what we hear, but it is always possible that something that is heard is not measured (or even measurable).

    My question rephrased: Using the measurements we have from @atomicbob here, is there anything on it that explains the treble glare?
     
  13. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    That question is pretty subjective. I don't find the Jot to be "glarey",even with a T-90.
     
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  14. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    It's a complicated thing- as the glare seems to happen less on amps that aren't brand new, and less on ones which are fully warmed-up, too. Even if we did know where to look (and I really don't), you'd need to control for a lot of stuff.

    Given that it's a largely subtle perceptual effect that is hard to describe accurately and also depends a lot on transducer and listener, you're expecting a lot.
     
  15. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Friend

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    I agree with mithrandir41; don't hear any treble glare (whatever that is) with the Jot, at least mine, although I typically only use the amp section.
     
  16. captkirk

    captkirk Friend

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    @wrestler

    +1, no glare experienced with the Jot.

    Are you asking because you've heard this "glare" or are you inquiring prior to a purchase?
     
  17. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    When I heard the Jot, treble glare was not an issue.

    And in my experience such sonic attributes can often be traced back to a setup or other situational influence such as poor wiring, or another link in the chain that elicits the behavior and then the amp is blamed for passing it along, ie doing it's job of being like a wire with gain.

    When the gear becomes transparent enough ALL of the rest of the system becomes evident, in both the 'good' and 'bad' sense.
    IOW if there is a sonic 'sore spot', when better gear is introduced into the system, you will hear these 'sore spots' with more definition and clarity etc. I call the sore spots CP's (Choke Points) because they choke off the SQ to a certain extent and when removed, more of the SQ is allowed to pass on thru the rest of the system.
    Sometimes these CP's can hide other 'sore spots' which reveal themselves when the overriding CP's are ameliorated.

    IOW it's an overall system wide balance that I seek such that the 'sore spots' and CP's are not an issue.

    Just my 2¢ worth.

    JJ
     
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  18. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Friend

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    In your terms, the dac in the Jot is a CP, but from gumby, no issues at all, so it isn't the amp.
     
  19. johnjen

    johnjen Friend

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    I'd agree with that. The dac card for the Jot isn't in the same league as the Gumby and glare could be a significant issue if the rest of the system would tend to exacerbate or highlight it.

    JJ
     
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  20. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I thought my jot sounded "ringy" or almost overly wet in the treble when i first got it. Subsequently, at some point that went away. It may be that I can hear it to some degree with the built in dac, but even that sounds alright now. I'm not sure if the jot changed or my brain adjusted, but the treble is spot on for me now (with a Bimby, I don't use the built in dac currently). Detailed, clear, and smooth. I now prefer the jot to the valhalla2. I think.
     

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