Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

Nice impressions!! Which one was more detailed, refined, and a better dac overall?

 

Lol I did but purposely left that out. I honestly went into with my Yggdrasil expecting to wipe out the DAVE as it’s brand new if you catch my drift.

But especially on the speakers the DAVE sounded more realistic to me. One of the things I found most interesting was that on Utopia the two dacs were far more similar. On them DAVE perhaps was a little better but by a margin so small that Yggdrasil was doing a fantastic job for being literally a fifth the price. One of my friends couldn’t really tell them apart on the headphones, though we all could on the speakers.

That said I’m still struggling on describing which one was more detailed. For example on an upright bass the Yggdrasil and DAVE sounded pretty different. Yggdrasil was very “detailed” in that there was a lot there, but it didn’t completely sound like I’d expect if I heard one right in front of me. This may have been more detail and it was replicating resonance and reverb to a ridiculous degree. DAVE on the other hand sounded like I expected the instrument to sound. But I’m not sure if that makes it more or less detailed.

It’s definitely a Chord thing. I have Hugo 2 now, and in this case it still has that natural sound but is below Yggdrasil in detail. (Also again Hugo 2 I think is very nice for driving iems on the go or at a desk, but not very good value for a primary set up).

Overall my impressions were DAVE >= Yggdrasil >> Hugo 2. And I could see people preferring Yggdrasil. They honestly sounded like two different styles. And Yggdrasil is so upfront that I may have just found it fatiguing out of Utopia that may have been pleasant on LCD-4s or something.

For value as usual Yggdrasil was killing everyone.

 

Yes I feel I have to tread carefully to not sound like a shill if I'm saying I like the DAVE. But it's nothing along the lines of stupid blind praise. If anything it makes me understand Torq's initial DAVE impression much better: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...asil-watering-the-ash.4036/page-5#post-125704

My thoughts are rather similar. I'm mostly conflicted as to whether a different pair of headphones would have made me feel differently. Utopia and Kanta both have phenomenal detail and are pretty in your face with it. A less aggressive sound signature could very likely have made DAVE sound too laid back and Yggdrasil have some much needed attack. But I love the Focal right now. But if I had like an Auteur or LCD-4 I may have felt the opposite.

I also haven't heard the TT, though I don't think it would be in the same league, Chord dacs seem to scale quite well with the number of taps. That would make me expect Hugo 2 to be better than the TT, and the TT to be well behind Yggdrasil. Though I haven't heard it.

 

Was the Yggdrasil fully 'cooked' well done for a few days? Ideally left powered on for 7 days non-stop before the comparison.

Yggdrasil raw immediately after switching on doesn't sound right. It loses all its magic. Any comparison to any DAC would be flawed.

 

Affirmative, though not as long as I'd have liked I had to move it like 5ish days ago. Though it was my Yggdrasil, so I'm well aware of how it sounds anyway at this point, there could have been some additional "harshness" from that.

I was listening to Yggdrasil first through my Utopias for a while to make sure Yggdrasil was sounding solid, and it sounded like it normally does to my ears so at least there weren't drastic changes. The bass on the speakers sounded the most different to me between the dacs, but that didn't seem to be the case on the headphones, it was pretty similar. Prior to moving it it had been on for months. And since Hugo 2 does essentially sound like a mini DAVE, I can compare that further once Yggdrasil has a lot more hours back on it. I will say that Yggdrasil changed its signature when I first got it, but I notice very little difference anymore between when it was warmed up for a few hours vs a week plus. In that even after less than a day it already sounds quite excellent. I'm aware of the warm up time, but the differences between DAVE and Yggdrasil were not due to that imo. The changes are subtle from it warming up for a few hours (really just when the chassis starts to feel warm I think). The differences I was hearing sounded more just like different approaches to digital to analogue conversion.

So lets assume Yggdrasil wasn't at it's best and would have gained additional detail retrieval. It still wouldn't have the same "signature" as the DAVE, though then perhaps the playing field would have evened out a little more on the speaker side. It's something to think about. My point is I still think those who prefer Yggdrasil would prefer Yggdrasil and those who prefer DAVE would prefer DAVE. But you motivate me to more seriously compare the Hugo 2 and Yggdrasil.

Edit: One thing I'm noticing right now between Hugo 2 and Yggdrasil is there is some sort of different approach to soundstage. I'm not good at describing what I'm hearing in this regard, but they just don't sound the same. Listening to Give Life Back To Music I'm not sure which I prefer... (not detail wise / overall here Yggdrasil wins)

Also note I'm using Raggy as the amp for both Hugo 2 and Yggdrasil here.

 

Interesting point. I auditioned the Dave in non-ideal meet conditions directly driving HEKv2 and briefly Utopia with no other DAC I could immediately compare it to nearby. The sound was refined but too buttery smooth for my taste. It was similar character to the Mojo indicating a familial Chord trait. I wonder how the experience with properly setup speakers would translate. That said, I would probably miss the realistic raw feel of the Yggdrasil that I have been enjoying for more than 2 years.

 

It's interesting that differences were more pronounced on speakers than headphones. You were using Raggy for the headphones, but I don't think you mentioned what was driving the speakers. Perhaps some of the difference was caused by interaction/matching of the DACS with the particular preamp/amp?

 

I'm getting the full specs of the system now I don't remember everything. When I have it I'll edit it into this post.

Does anyone know the actual output power of DAVE's headphones jack? I'm assuming Chord intentionally made it very hard to figure out? Like 1W into 300 Ohms type deal? (Not that that's right)

Edit: Preamp was Rogue RP-7, Amps were Rogue M180 monos. Simaudio 260 transport and all nordost valhalla 2 cables. @Metro

 

6w 8 ohm
800mw 300ohm
Something like that

 

Does anybody have an idea how much an used Ayre QB-9 DSD would be actually worth sound quality wise? Not as good as Yggdrasil according to Torq, but if you could buy one for 1000 euros, would it be a decent deal?

 

I haven't heard this but I have heard another good ES9016S implementation, or three. For the price I would get the NAD C510 (new!) if you need the volume control and otherwise a Modi Multibit or Gungnir Multibit, Holo Spring L1 and Amethyst are also options. The smart money is on the Modi Multibit and use the difference to upgrade your headphones/speakers or amp (says the former Modi Multibit and Yggdrasil owner).

Edit: also, please use the general advice thread for general advice.

 

I owned previously the NAD M51 ( which is pretty much the same device as the C510 I think ) and I honestly think it is probably one of the worst dacs I've ever owned. Harsh, sibilant treble and weird, warmish, "dirty" timbre especially at the bottom end. Sounds incoherent as well. Hardly worth the asking price if you ask me!

I prefer used devices. Schiits are hard to come by here. I am looking something that quality-wise matches or exceeds the Soekris dac1541, which I previously found to be too bright/lean for my tastes ( but good otherwise ). Not planning on upgrading other stuff this time.

But I take my case to the correct thread.

 

The Schiits may be a fairly good match if you can bring yourself to buy a new one, but I would recommend to avoid all delta sigma entirely and try something NOS to see if you like it. Amethyst or Holo Spring L1. Use balanced outputs if possible. Only Pavane cured the sibilance problem for me.

 

DAVE in the house. Comparable to Yggdrasil in detail to my ears though Yggdrasil I think edges it out. It's somewhat hard to hear across the board. To me the Yggdrasil sounded better in the high end. But on the low end DAVE has better sounding bass to my ears.

She's a Lady by Patricia Barber has a nice double bass in there. The DAVE sounds decidedly more accurate to my ears vs Yggdrasil. Yggdrasil is like more airy or something but unnaturally so. If anyone else has both on them I'd love to hear their thoughts on that specific track as the difference between the two dacs was stunningly large.

In general DAVE seems to be a warmer dac. I find myself more satisfied with Utopias bass out of it. Honestly my preferences and headphone choice probably lean towards favoring DAVE. But Yggdrasil is a far better value proposition here, and definitely is doing some things better.

 

To my ears DAVE sounds significantly better in seperation. No idea why. Instrument placement is very precise out of DAVE's own amp. Did not get to try out of Ragnarok so take that with a grain of salt. I was kind of doing the schiit stack of flagships vs DAVE so since Ragnarok isn't perfectly transparent it'll color it potentially...

Give Life Back To Music was my big test song on that one. The guitar after the intro is finished sounded better placed on the DAVE. This wasn't the case with Hugo 2 though it was more like different presentations... I almost feel like Yggdrasil is producing too much detail or something which ends up with it sounding a little cloudy if that makes sense? I kinda wish I had more headphones as I bet Yggdrasil would probably really outshine DAVE with something like the Phis or LCD-3s where warmth isn't needed like I wanted with Utopia.

Honestly my impression is kind of that Yggdrasil is a better dac, but DAVE is the one I enjoy more despite that. shrug

 

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The soundstage between the Yggdrasil and the Dave is not even a comparison. The Yggdrasil has flat, narrow, tunneled sound stage whereas the Dave is 3d/holographic. Once I heard it I just couldn't go back to the Yggdrasil. Dave also has better separation.

 

Has the EC Design Mosaic ever been in stock? I know I checked a couple months ago and it was sold out, just as it is now.

 

nope. I was told around Christmas. wat I use is their previous Mosaic T. as far as I understand the major improvement with the upcoming mosaic uv is the usb input, the dac part is basically the same.
cannot wait to get the new Mosaic UV!!!!! also quite intrigued by the headphone output part which is basically only a buffer headphone amp, pretty cool.

basically I think Yggdrasil may be better technically but I just love the NOS R2R sound. its smooth, still very detailed and simply more musical to my ears. im a sucker for lush and warm sound I think.

 

The sound stage of the Yggdrasil didn't bother me too much, it was more the slightly bright tonality and forward nature. Got fatiguing (YMMV). Once I tried a high end NOS R2R DAC I knew that I had found the sound signature that I was looking for.

I still take my hat off to the Yggdrasil for doing so much right at the price point it sells for. Quite an amazing amount of bang for the buck, but not the DAC for me.