MHDT Labs R-2R NOS Tube DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Luckbad, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    I don't believe this could be better than the AGD (top) stuffs....
     
  2. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I didn't say it was! I didn't sell my Master-11 because its dac is worse than the Atlantis. I sold it because I don't listen much at home, it's too big to take to work, I could upgrade my work setup with the money, and put some money in the bank.

    The Atlantis comes close in detail and separation to the M11. It bests the Master-11 when in NOS mode, and I like NOS. It's close enough that I'm not missing a lot, plus I get extra musicality, a smaller footprint, and less cost.

    As a NOS dac, the Atlantis blows the Audio-GD NOS-1704 I and @Hands used to have out of the water.

    As a detail monster dac that most are after, it doesn't best the Master-11.
     
  3. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    My bad, I should read more carefully. mhdt also has a 1704 NOS DAC, you should give it a try, 1704 vs 1704.
     
  4. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Yep. Soundsgoodtome at Head-Fi is going to do a swap with me. Stockholm, Pagoda, Atlantis will all be compared.
     
  5. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Mirroring most of a PM I sent someone for any interested:

    I haven't heard the Stockholm yet. I picked up an Atlantis and I think it's pretty incredible, especially since you can get it for ~$10% less than the eBay price + shipping if you email MHDT directly instead of buying through eBay.

    The MHDT in general is a warm, liquid sound. It has a decent flourish of sparkle, air, and very good soundstage. Tubes alter it a bit in different directions. I really like the Western Electric 396a / 2c51 tubes so far.

    Frankly, I usually want a warm, romantic sound. My current chain is exactly that. MHDT Atlantis -> Garage1217 Project Sunrise III. I have a second Atlantis on the way and an Ember II coming as well. The Sunrise is warmer/softer than the Ember while the Ember is more detailed, dynamic, and neutral.

    I've fallen in love with tubes, and the fact that you can get this chain for ~$1000 is awesome. I've spend many thousands in the past year or so trying to find the right headphones, amp, and DAC. I finally realized that I don't necessarily need TOTL gear like Master-11 and Yggdrasil for home since I listen for much less time there than work, and all the super TOTL stuff is gigantic and can't be used at work.

    The short(ish) version of the comparison:
    • They are equally smooth given the same amplifier and the right tubes.
    • The soundstage seems to be slightly deeper on the Atlantis to me than the Master-11, while the M11 is perhaps a touch wider.
    • The Atlantis punches a little harder in the bass with the Western Electric tube than M11. It is said to punch a bit less but add detail, air, and sparkle with a Bendix tube.
    • (continuing with the Western Electric because it's the only one I've used much)
    • The Master-11 is a bit better with detail retrieval and resolution. It's also more dynamic.
    • Both have the beautifully organic R-2R sound.
    • Amazing timbre and instrument reproduction on both.
    It's hard to know exactly what you want. Frankly, one DAC/Amp setup is going to corrupt your ears to another. I found that out the hard way by trying to much the same that you are. The Master-11 was an ideal blend of warmth and detail. A smooth sound that allows you to hear into the music without violating your ears with brightness. When you get used to the brighter/more detailed setup the other one will sound gooey and syrupy in comparison. When you listen to the warmer setup the other will sound etched and bright in comparison.

    You probably won't love both for long.

    I really don't like the Yggdrasil personally. The Gungnir Multibit is slightly warmer with nearly as much detail as the Yggdrasil and is the only dac from Schiit I'd ever consider purchasing at this point. I've heard the Yggdrasil a good bit and owned a Bifrost Multibit and Modi before.

    The Yggdrasil in my mind is like an overdeveloped photo with saturation, sharpness, and emboss applied to allow you to see more of a photo than was originally visible (but it was there). The Gungnir Multibit is similar but turns off the extra sharpness. The Master-11 is a bit different of an animal. It takes a photo and adds a touch of saturation, warms the colors up a bit to make them cozy, and increases the resolution of the photo taken without sharpening at all.

    The Atlantis is like a beautiful painting of the same picture. All of the same details are there, but any edge or sharpness is removed. Blemishes are largely painted out instead of left imperfect. But everything important is still there. It leaves me more likely to crack a little smile despite not being certain that the guy who I sneezed was three rows deep, second from the left (instead it sounds like some guy who sneezed to my left and forward a bit).
     
  6. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    More glamour shots:

    20160219_083642.jpg 20160219_083600.jpg 20160219_083510.jpg 20160219_083458.jpg
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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  8. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Haha! It's four buttons to switch between BNC, USB, RCA, and TOSLINK inputs.

    I always picture this guy when I read it:

    Bert_smile_smaller.png
     
  9. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Changing this to a generic MHDT Labs thread since they're still pretty uncommon.

    My second Atlantis should be here tomorrow, after which I'm sending the existing one to Soundsgoodtome and he's sending his Pagoda to me. In 2-3 months I'll get ears on his Stockholm 2 as well.

    The Atlantis uses AD1862N-J chips, the Pagoda uses PCM1704, and Stockholm 2 uses PCM56P-J.
     
  10. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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  11. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    @MoatsArt The previous Paradisea 3 owner probably rolled a new opamp into it. People used to do that with that DAC to improve detail at the expensive of causing clipping unless you lowered the volume. The Stockholm, Atlantis, and Pagoda don't use any opamps and don't have the clipping issue.
     
  12. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Someone's twin arrived today: 20160222_145513.jpg 20160222_215312.jpg
     
  13. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    Was wondering how this would compare with the Stockholm V2 - From my notes I recalled my only qualm with the Stockholm V2 is the somewhat intimate staging. One losses out on how instruments would "come and fade from a distance", especially with soundtracks that has huge ambiance, if that makes sense.

    PS: This is in comparison with the Marantz CD6004.

    Or maybe I should just stick to getting a Gungnir.
     
  14. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I don't know how the Atlantis compares with the Stockholm or Pagoda quite yet. I will hear a Pagoda this weekend, but Stockholm is months out.

    The soundstage on this is extremely good. It can be slightly adjusted with the right or wrong tube.

    The Gungnir Multibit might be better for most people (but not the non-multibit).
     
  15. Enigmatic

    Enigmatic Friend

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    Thanks for the comment, Luckbad.

    After some more thinking, I oughta tough it out and stick to the Gungnir Multibit. For the multiple output options - Easier for me to hook on both my speaker and headphone setup to a single DAC, when my amplifier is eventually repaired. Prices had went up nearly 30~40% due to the weakening of my local currency though.

    I do recall how lovely the Stockholm sounds. So I can claim myself to (to some extent) understand your infatuation to the Atlantis. Enjoy!
     
  16. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I switched the Western Electric JW 2C51 / 396A tube out for a GE 5 Star Triple Mica and have been pleasantly content with the sound. I was expecting to dislike the GE given that it can be had for a fair bit cheaper (half price or even less), but I think it's actually quite good.

    I tried out a Bendix 6385 and found it to be very detailed with excellent soundstage but a touch bright.

    I just rolled a Sylvania JAN 2C51 tube in I'm having similar thoughts about it as I did the Bendix. Great detail, wonderful extension, really nice bass delivery, but a touch more treble than my treble-sensitive ears would want. A cool cosmetic benefit is that it has a firewire thing at the top and looks neat all orange. I have some Sylvania Gold Brand on the way to try out.

    In both cases, I could just pop in a tube in the amp to smooth things out (or maybe even just burn them in), but I like some of the other tubes as much so no need.

    I've also checked out Raytheon CK5670 (quite good, but I feel like the GE 5 Stars are similar and cheaper), CBS Industrial (very good but so hard to find I don't want to get attached), and I have Tung-Sol and RCA on the way to check out.

    Crap, I just popped the CBS back in after talking about it. Man, this is a really good tube. High end extension is just a shade off the Bendix and Sylvania, making them remain within my listening tolerance. Mids are absolutely superb, bass is powerful. It's possible that this is my favorite tube so far, but finding them is such a pain.
     
  17. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Valuable thread. I am enjoying a Havana at the moment being fed by some nice USB/Spdif bridges. Mates well with the Polaris amp. I have not settled on a fave tube yet, but have some Raytheon, Tungsol and Bendix on loan.

    Do any of the MHDT owners have any experience with the Monarchy dacs?
     
  18. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Initial impressions using a 6N2P-EV tube with an adapter are surprisingly favorable. No burn-in and I'd say this tube is better than most of the 5670 type tubes I've heard.

    I grabbed two different adapters off eBay. This one is built really well and seems to work perfectly thus far:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/201229111879?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    These tubes could really be a heck of a bargain if they prove out after burn-in against some of my current favored tubes.

    After I get my second Atlantis back from @Soundsgoodtome I can do direct comparisons of tubes.

    Quick update on the Pagoda vs. Atlantis.

    Rapidly switching in A/B comparison really doesn't yield much difference given the same Western Electric tubes into the same amplifier (Garage1217 Project Horizon III and Ember II were both used).

    But, with more prolonged listening, the Pagoda has more high end extension while the Atlantis is a bit more focused on the mids. I'm very sensitive to treble and with a Bendix tube in the Pagoda or a bright tube in my amps, it can get a little fatiguing. Note that I am especially sensitive to treble, though. The Atlantis is a little more forgiving in treble, a bit smoother with zero fatigue.

    More people would probably prefer the Pagoda, but I prefer the Atlantis.
     
  19. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I now have:
    • Tung-Sol JTL-2C51
    • RCA Command 5670
    • Westinghouse 5670
    • Sylvania JHS 2C51
    • Motorola 5670
    • Raytheon JAN 5670
    • CBS JHY-2C51
    • Sylvania Gold Brand
    • CBS Industrial
    • Sylvania JAN
    • Raytheon CK5670
    • Tung-Sol Halo
    And these that I will probably keep:
    • Western Electric (JW, D-Getter, Etc.)
    • GE 5 Star Red Triple Mica
    • GE 5 Star White Triple Mica
    • GE Triple Mica (non 5 star, but sounds the same)
    • Might also keep the Tung-Sol D-Getter
    And a bunch of 6N2P-EV tubes with a couple adapter variants.

    Tung-Sol 2C51 1958 D-Getter is rather good. Right up there with the big guns.

    Smooth, authoritative, and detailed. It's not quite as full sounding as a Western Electric, which could be a good thing depending on your amp.

    What I've largely found is that the rankings MHDT has are pretty accurate. They don't account for flavor, but you could probably plot out a spectrum of what each tube type delivers.

    Bendix seems like it's the winner for detail, Western Electric for maximum enveloping tube sound, then there are quite a few somewhere in between.

    Tung-Sol 2C51 is almost as smooth as the WE but has bigger (albeit looser) bass delivery and a little less lush sound.

    GE Triple Mica isn't as smooth as the WE but has impactful (again looser) bass delivery and a bit more air (nowhere near Bendix).

    Sylvania Gold Pin is airy with big bass punch and fairly bright highs (perhaps more treble even than Bendix).

    CBS Industrial is pretty similar to the GE Triple Mica but with a little tighter bass (it belongs in the 2nd Class list) and a little less lushness.

    RCA Command to my ears is warm like a Western Electric note for note but slightly less excellent overall (and available for less money).

    Raytheon CK5670 is a very good all-around tube. Doesn't do anything wrong, but doesn't knock my socks off.

    6N2P-EV (with adapter) combines excellent soundstage with powerful bass and slightly pushed-down treble.

    Everything else I've tried is at least a tier below and isn't really bad, but you can find the above tubes for a great price if you look hard enough.
     
  20. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Sneak preview of a souped-up Atlantis. Once I have the final parts list that was used, I'll post it. Nothing has been burned in on the unit yet, so it's hard to provide a proper comparison at the moment.

    20160416_212822 (1).jpg

    20160416_215856.jpg

    20160416_215941.jpg
     

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