Modi Multibit: Multibit for the masses.

@alchemist007 I've got one. I made a thread about it. Even though it's not paired to a transformer and has no oscillators or anything I compared again to USB last night (coincidentally) and it is a slightly cleaner signal on my Gigabyte mobo but don't expect a massive improvement.

 

Yeah I'm thinking I'm gonna be needing some of my USB ports later on so this just seemed like a really obvious step, especially if it's relatively cheap and potentially better.

edit: Ok got it this afternoon. It's almost an imperceptible difference but it's there. It was easiest to tell with cymbals. With USB it's definitely more 'digital' sounding, kind of like the difference between hearing cymbals in 320kbps mp3 and FLAC. I was able to switch sources near instantaneously and had to do so a dozen times before I could hear it consistently. So not a bad expenditure of $15 (also needed another coax cable), and I freed up that USB port now.

 

I debated putting this post in the "USB nervosa" thread but then I realized that I don't actually have USB nervosa at all. I have spdif curiosity and Toslink spdif curiosity in particular. But before I get too far in to this let me back up a few weeks. Back about the time I ordered my Modi Multibit I also ordered a Singxer SU-1 thinking that I was going to need it. (Yeah I know, I probably should have hit up the advice thread first and I could have saved myself the trouble. But I'll get to that in a minute.)

So today, finally, the SU-1 arrives. And because of this thread I am already dubious as to the gains that I could expect considering that I was using Toslink and not USB for my Modi Multibit. Well, after spending more time this evening than I care to admit A/B'ing songs from many genres and many decades and several sources I can say that the differences to my ears are very, very small. Toslink(spdif) sound quality from my motherboard is awfully close to the SU-1 to Coax(spdif) combo to the point where I really can't tell you which is better. To paraphrase what Jason Stoddard said in "Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-up" it is more of a shades of grey type thing than a better/worse situation.

I can hear minor differences and some of what I said earlier in this thread still holds. USB/SU-1 still sounds a little more aggressive and a little sharper on the edges. Toslink rounds those edges off a little bit and reinforces Modi Multibit's "sound in a cloud" attribute in terms of positioning. Vocals seem ever so slightly more forward on the Toslink and ever so slightly recessed coming from the SU-1. Toslink seems to be a kindler, gentler presentation of the sound overall and I still prefer it on the majority of the music that I normally listen to versus the more "in your face" presentation of the USB into the SU-1.

But man are the differences tiny. And that could be a function of me not having the best ears in the world or not having a gear chain that is sufficient for resolving the differences more clearly. But what I am hearing certainly isn't worth spending an extra $400 in an effort to improve my existing Toslink connection. After tonight it is super clear that I would rather spend (or save) that $400 and put it towards something that would make a much larger and more quantifiable difference to my setup. The moral of this story is that, once again, SBAF is usually right and that it never hurts to do a little extra research and wait a little longer to add a piece of gear to see if you really need it in your chain. But hey, now I know for sure and I can cross this one off of the list!

For the record, I used the Focal Elear headphones for all of my listening tonight. The DAC was the Modi Multibit and the amp was the Lyr 2 with the 75 Reflektor tubes. Source was mostly JRMC 22 24/192 FLAC but I also listened to Tidal as well as some 256k stuff from Amazon Music.

Ok, I'm kinda tired now. All of that critical listening and A/B'ing ended up feeling a lot like work.

 

No, you have good ears. I have been running my Modi Multibit directly out from my computer using USB, and recently switched to another computer that has Toslink. I get the same impressions you are experiencing. USB does sound sharper and more aggressive and maybe a tiny bit grainy. Toslink does sound kinder and gentler. I actually prefer the more in your face USB presentation even though the highs are not as clean. I purchased a Raspberry Pi and I am hoping that a digital hat like the Kali I2S reclocker or Pi 2 Designs 503 will give me a cleaner and more punchy sound, similar to but improving on USB. Will be purchasing one of these hats soon. We are on a good ride here.

 

I can attest to that. Optical is like a slight smoothing filter, something that DACs with resampling option seem to do, while USB is harsher, more "etched" an (in comparison to coax SPDIF) unrefined. I'm using the optical in for my Sound Blaster Z though, strictly for gaming and movies and it's really good enough there. I have one USB controller strictly for the DAC if needed with fully sufficient and stable 5V. Doesn't matter a lot though imo as C/P/S states of CPUs and high end GFX cards simply put tension on the PSU that are unnecessary for audio (not getting any disturbances but still, clean power is important)

Since we're getting Dolby Atmos for headphones through Windows 10 sometime this year everything could go through coax.

 

It is actually that inconvenient, sadly. You nailed it. Good, cheap, off the shelf- pick any two.

There's a reason why people have started dealing with the faff of building little Pi-based sources (with cheap/decent digital out boards using decent clocks). It is a bit of a pain in the ass, especially if you normally avoid getting your hands dirty with computer stuff- though it's actually fairly cheap and easy if you take the plunge and know where to look. It's still not magic, though- it still follows the "pick any two" rule. However, once it's done, it does sound nicer.

People with really expensive DACs, on the other hand, can probably justify and afford to stretch to RME/ Lynx boards, or some Rednet stuff. That's still "pick any two", of course.



Edit: @MattRG - the differences between motherboard SPDIF and fairly clean SPDIF shouldn't require much work to spot- maybe either what you had is fairly good and/or your D2D converter isn't a big step up?

You should be able to hear it fairly easily. If you listen to higher percussion, especially, the transients should be crisper, there should be more air, and the timbre of various drums and hats will come through more cleanly- you'll start hearing wood and metal rather than just sharply enveloped noise- and it should all cut through the mix better. Also, acoustic guitars should sound more like they have metal or plastic strings etc..

The "kinder, gentler" effect is caused by frequency "smearing", where phase noise in the SPDIF introduces frequencies either side of the one that's supposed to be be reproduced. Typically it's periodic jitter from running with clock dividers and the like. Tiny differences in when signal arrives are enough to shift frequencies, if that makes sense. It "blurs" the sound, and takes all the sharp edges off for you. If you're not used to hearing them in your music, getting those sharp edges back can be a little jarring for a few days.

 

Thank you for that. That's as good an explanation as I have yet heard for the differences. To me it is not a disagreeable sound as the tubes I have in the Lyr 2 are quite euphonic and airy anyway so the slightly blurred presentation of the motherboard Toslink sort of fits right in to my gear chain in a strange sort of way.

For a "starter" personal audio setup I am fairly pleased with the sound I am getting out of the Toslink to Modi Multibit to Lyr 2, especially considering the amount I have invested ($250 Modi Multibit, $275 Lyr 2, $100 for the nice tubes). There's always that itch to try out another piece of gear and see what the changes might be and as I have the resources to try out some upgrades I probably will. But for now, I am enjoying what I have.

 

Wouldn't it be neat if there was a DAC that could sum digital input from multiple sources simultaneously, and then give the 'truest' result as analog output?

.. I'm gonna Google this a bit.

 

You may suffer a terrible synching feeling...

 

And how exactly is the DAC going to know what is 'truest'? Besides, USB Audio is provably bit perfect, so it's not a matter of how 'correct' the bits are.

 

Warning: Blind and dumb theorycrafting.

Provably perfect, but not always in practice from what I've read. Thus, jitter or occasional dropouts.

My understanding of it is that data integrity loss is caused by a bit of digital data being mis-timed or delayed relative to other packets. Surprisingly, this is actually a relatively common issue to experience depending on what input you're using. Most DACs handle this by smoothing it over in a variety of ways, which can have different effects depending on the size/duration of the mis-timed packet. If a DAC is receiving digital input from, say, Toslink, SPDIF, AND USB simultaneously, it has a few extra layers of redundancy where it can try to identify whether a packet has been dropped or not by comparing all three. If one source varies, then it just uses the two that are identical. If no sources are identical, then it can try to take a hierarchical approach where it preferentially uses SPDIF over Toslink over USB, or whatever the manufacturers decide is the most likely input to be accurate.

I'm probably off on a few of my assumptions here, but I relish the chance to learn so feel free to correct me on anything that I've stated is incorrect.

 

Do you have anything to back up these claims?

You WILL hear drop outs. Set the ASIO latency too short on your PC and you will hear audible glitches due to missing data thanks to latency causing missing packets. This is something you can test for yourself.

Jitter is not really relevant if asynchronous USB is done properly. Drop outs are audibly apparent.

 

First: I wasn't making claims, I literally stated "Blind and dumb theory crafting" and "My understanding of it", along with "I'm probably off on a few of my assumptions here, but I relish the chance to learn so feel free to correct me on anything that I've stated is incorrect." No need to get testy with me.

One of the places that I've done some reading on DAC related things has been from this page. They make a couple DACs that seem to be fairly well received within this community and some others, so I at least trust their raw information as being fairly reputable (even if they have a vested interest in selling things).

http://www.audiophilleo.com/home/definition/jitter

 

Sorry if I sounded gruff - not a morning person. I apologize. Your tone ("common issue", "Most DACs") gave me the impression of having evidence.

This is synchronous USB, which hasn't been used in ages.

Another page describes asynchronous

(Is it just me or is that website impossible to scroll properly on a phone?)

 

Coffee truly begets us all. And ugh, I believe it without even having to see. So many issues with mobile browsing still. So much so, there's an XKCD related to it.

 

I've had the AU/NZ loaner Modi Multibit for a few days.

My current setup is simple. Spotify Premium on an iPad mini2 > lightning to usb adapter > Jotunheim with internal DAC > HD650 with balanced cable. Not much to complain about given the low cost.

Against the Jotunheim's internal DAC, the most striking difference with the Modi Multibit in the chain is in the rendition of micro details. There's better definition and a sense of space between elements. Complex passages are busy but focused. In the cacophony, details sparkle without restraint. It makes for a very immersive presentation.

The Modi Multibit's bass presentation seems to hit harder too but it is a tad smeared compared to the tighter and more controlled rendition from the Jot's internal DAC.

I was skeptical of the gushing praise over the Modi Multibit but it should come as no surprise that I'm now adding to the chorus. There's been mention of a "veil" and whilst I wouldn't use that term, I can understand where it's coming from. A better, and undoubtedly more expensive DAC would extend further and smoother into the upper registers. The mid-bass bloat would also be rectified.

Does the Modi Multibit render the Jot's internal DAC unlistenable? No. If anything I'm more content to stick with it... until Schiit elevates the MB Bifrost to a balanced DAC, or I cave and pull the trigger on a Gungnir Multibit.

 

You nailed it. This is why I'm loving life with the Modi Multibit right now.

A question for those with more knowledge than I: Is this type of presentation the "Schiit house sound" because of the special supermegacomboburrito filter or is it just a function of a well designed R2R DAC? Or just a well designed DAC in general? Because if and when I upgrade the Modi Multibit I wouldn't want to lose that special type of presentation that it has.

 

At least for the filter, you can investigate yourself. Upsample your music from 44.1 to 176.4khz in your player and see how you think the sound changes. This bypasses the burrito filter and replaces it with some other algorithm, and so gives you some kind of window into what the burrito filter is doing.

HQPlayer has loads of upsampling algorithms (key selling point really), but all the other main players have good quality ones too. Audirvana has high quality Izotope upsampling algorithm by default. Jriver has SSRC or Sox upsampling (change in the options). For Foobar, install this:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/resamplerv/

Personally I think software upsampling I've tried doesn't sound quite as good as the burrito. Though it's maybe not a completely fair comparison because increasing the sample rate could also affect the transmission from PC to DAC in other ways (eg maybe more jitter and noise)

 

Late to the party, but felt like sharing my experience. I went to my first meet early February. Met some cool people, and got to listen to some very interesting setups. There were quite a few AOIP based setups with my two favorite being a Rednet-3x Mutecs-Theta GenVa-Older Decware Taboo-HD800. The other setup was an Attero Tech DAES-O/Unknown transport-Yggdrasil-Bifrost-Mody Multibit-Saga-Jotunheim-HD800. It was a great system where you could compare each DACs with the preamp. The Yggdrasil fed with AOIP is plain enjoyable.

It inspired me to get a Modi Multibit. My setup was USB-Modi Multibit-Sonett 2-PMx2. It sounded veiled, a little hollow, but also did a decent job unwrapping background detail. It was as if aluminum foil was taken off the cymbals on the drum in the background. I know that USB is not recommended, but I already purchased/returned a lifatech cable when demoing a Chord Hugo a long time ago. Toslink from my motherboard didn’t make any appreciable difference back then so I didn’t try it with the Modi.

I ended up returning the Modi. I’m going to wait and see if there are any AOIP developments while I save up for Yggdrasil, or something equivalent.

 

Yeah AOIP is really exciting. I am hoping the technology proliferates and trickles down (out?) quickly because it has a lot of upside. Of course AOIP to a Yggdrasil is a large step up in price and complexity from the USB to Modi Multibit combo so it should offer proportional sonic benefits and from your experience it sounds like it did.

I've gone on record here as saying I am enjoying my Modi Multibit out of my motherboard Toslink (especially as compared to USB) but I recognize that my system has plenty of room for further improvements down the road as time and resources permit.

One interesting development is that I have sourced an open box but otherwise new ESI Juli@ pci-e version from a DJ supply retailer online. It should be here any day now and I will finally be in a position to test a proper low jitter rca spdif feed for the Modi Multibit.