New LCD-4 vs Utopia shootout from Innerfidelity.

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Thenewerguy009, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. cskippy

    cskippy Friend

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    I find that people will always justify their purchases especially if it's expensive. No different than any other hobby or material thing, it's just human nature.
     
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  2. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    That's what meets are for. You justify before you purchase... Then you come to the forums expressing relief that other gear is less than perfect. ;-). But in Lojay's case, he seems to be doing neither.

    I'm curious about the cable also, though. I think it'd fare much better in my chain with the analog frontend, than the digital... If it were to have a noticeable effect at all. Also an interesting note about the cable is the primary review that DHC points to ... "audiobacon" or some such ... speaks of the tremendous affect it has on air and openness. I guess everything is relative.
     
  3. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

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    The point of his post was not to justify the purchase of the cable. I am not sure how you are reading that. I also do not think you comprehended that he said the cable FAILED to fix his issues with the Utopia. Indeed, per the pervasion of expectancy bias that you point out, it is possible your expectations that someone buying a cable would seek to justify the cable in any way possible have colored your own post so as to occlude reader comprehension of the primary thrust of the argument.

    As a result, an attempt to derail the discussion away from a critique of the Utopia, which the fucking cable did not fix, as is clear in the post.

    I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of Lojay's analysis, though I am floored with the Utopia from the ZDS. I still think it wows me less on an emotional level than the modded HD800 or the HE-6, but I often find its visceral and resolving tuning to be quite thrilling with many recordings, and the former have their own flaws.
     
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  4. cskippy

    cskippy Friend

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    I feel like cables can shift the balance, kind of like a tilt control on overall frequency response. Want more treble? You're going to lose some bass. Want bass? Guess what, there goes some of your clarity and air. Maybe if the cable is really fucked up you might get better extension at the extremes but that cable shouldn't even exist.

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to add to the derail. Just wanted to add a different perspective.
     
  5. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    I don't think I'm in a position to judge the accuracy of the claim made by the manufacturer quoted in the "Closing Gaps" part of your post. That will require careful A-B comparisons between different TOTL headphones and cables on them. My observations are limited specifically at the treble response of the Utopias after I replaced the stock cable with the DHC Prion4, and the change was obvious because what annoyed me substantially about the treble had gone. I found that the cable had little impact on the key attribute (and my key gripe) about the Utopias, namely its closed-in soundstage and lack of air. Nor did it make the headphone completely tonally coherent as some of my electrostats. And when comparing the Utopias to my other TOTLs, I ranked it expressly lower than at least a several in different aspects. Also, my comparison was with the stock cables, not third party cables of another manufacturer.

    What I can say is that, when I connected the Prion4 with adapters to the JPS Labs Abyss, I felt that the large annoyance I had with the treble also subsided. In the case of the Abyss, the treble issues were sufficient for me to render the Abyss unlistenable, but the Prion4 made that headphone much more listenable. It may well be that other third party cables have an equal effect, I do not know.
     
  6. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    Thanks for this. You are right in interpreting what I wrote. For the record, given its performance I have zero buyers remorse for the Prion4, but I somewhat regret (not to a great degree) buying the Utopias. If "justifying one's purchase" is real as an emotional or psychological response, this makes very little sense because I paid substantially more for the Utopias than the Prion4. In any event, I am fortunate to be in a financial position to not worry about the expense of the Prion4 (as I might do for the HE90 or SR-O: I try for psychological reasons to like the HE90 but it is a somewhat flawed headphone!).
     
  7. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    There were some idiots on HF calling him an Audeze shill.....

    I trust Bob over anyone at HF. Below is an excerpt from his Big Sound 2015 write up. No prominent Headfi reviewer has the balls to say something like this!

    My number two choice: The Audeze LCD-3. I've now auditioned two samples of the LCD-3 and they are as different as can be. This sample sounds a lot more like my preferred LCD-X. I wager that unit-to-unit variations are greater than the differences between the two models. That makes it hard for someone to make a decision unheard and I advise you to go to a dealer that has both and audition two for-sale models if possible.
     
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  8. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    What amp and source were used?
     
  9. Torq

    Torq Retired from SBAF

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    If it is the same as in the previous comparison Bob did, then the DAC is an OPPO HA-2. It's feeding, via a splitter, a custom built AMB amp driving the Focals and an Audeze Deckard feeding the LCD-4.

    I don't see anything that says definitively either way though.

    In both cases, the divergent chain for the comparison tells me that it's a complete waste of time to read the rest of the thing. And, regardless of what it says, my LCD-4 still get by far the least listening time of any of my TOTL cans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  10. Larry Megugorac

    Larry Megugorac Hopeless vinylyte

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    It amazes me that the different units of the exact same HP sound different....What kind of manufacturing/QC systems are they maintaining there? The latest TOTL HP prices are so ridiculously high and they cannot make a consistent performer from unit to unit...amazing...
     
  11. pippenainteasy

    pippenainteasy Rando

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    So the entire panel was made up of mixing engineers. Worth noting mixing engineers tend to spend long hours listening to mixing monitors and most of those speakers tend be heavily rolled off.
     
  12. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Definitely funny to see fans trying to discredit the reviewers when they told bad things about their babies. Absolutely hilarious. I remember when Tyll pulled off the HD800S from the WOF. it was like the end of the world in dedicated thread on HF. lol

    but to be honest , I thought as well Katz was in a mission there. It's probably unfair but the whole shootout looks soooo much like a fuckin ad for Audeze lol . I mean... Different amplifiers for the two cans ? Audeze amp vs a portable Sony ? For real ? ;) .

    Moreover , from what I read it's almost 100% focused on FR right ? For somebody who heavily use EQ and promote the use of it , it would make more sense to focus more on something else . EQ can fix all FR issues right ? :)

    and so on.

    btw. A lot of words to say I don't care. I 've no dog in this fight. lol
     
  13. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    I had the drivers replaced when I had a pair of LCD-3F. It's all based on memory and compared to other headphones I had at home, but I always thought they sounded differently after driver replacement. The second incarnation had a leaner response with less bass quantity.
     
  14. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Friend

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    There's 3 set ups minimum in play here. What the hell?

    Edit: The set ups are better explained in this article: http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...-13-big-shootout-audeze-lcd-4-vs-focal-utopia
     
  15. numbercube

    numbercube Acquaintance

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  16. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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  17. JimL

    JimL Almost "Made"

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  18. Serious

    Serious Immature child

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    Holy shit. Both the LCD-4 and the Utopia show massive variations. Compare that to Sennheiser's HD800 consistency. I can't wait for people to try to figure out which "revision" their Utopia or LCD-4 is. Looks like Tyll's Utopia is actually closer in FR to Bob's LCD-4 than to Bob's Utopia.
     
  19. frenchbat

    frenchbat BritishBat's arch enemy - Friend

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    A more balanced FR for the Utopia isn't going to fix the tunnel soundstage.
     
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  20. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Truly laughable those headphones are for 4000 dollars.
     
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