New Schiit Vali 2 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by jexby, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Daveheart

    Daveheart Friend

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    I'd call 'Low noise and microphonics' necessary.

    Balanced triodes (aka matching sections) is amp dependent; in general consult your manufacturer to find out whether or not this one's necessary for your amp. For the Vali 2 specifically, yes, matched/balanced triodes are recommended.

    As far as high gain is concerned, I thought that was more for guitar amps where breakup and distortion are a good thing (someone with guitar amp experience more recent than 2 decades ago please correct me if I'm wrong).
     
  2. Changeling

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  3. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    At least balanced triodes and low noise/microphonics are desirable. Not sure if high gain is all that critical.
     
  4. Ali-Pacha

    Ali-Pacha Friend

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  5. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    ROTFLMFAO!!!!! That sounds hilarious :punk:

    Not to make light of your problem, but it sounds like some cool distortion effects.
     
  6. Ali-Pacha

    Ali-Pacha Friend

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    I could try to plug my guitar on my Vali 2, maybe :D

    Ali
     
  7. Changeling

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    I wonder if they keep "last 1 pc." forever...? Anyway, with some thought I think that this one is a better match for Vali2 than the 6N23P... Yes, there's a lot of energy and spark but together with Modi2 MB I think they make a brilliant trio that suits most people and most wallets.
    I will try to finish my round-up of tubes for Vali2 in the upcoming weeks, similar to what I did in the Mjolnir2 thread. I think many of you will be surprised...
     
  8. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    Trying to understand and learn. Why would matched/balanced triodes be of extra importance to Vali2?

    Of the ~10 different tubes I've tried in Vali2 none has been with matched / balanced sections and none of them has had any issues that I could hear in terms of technical performance (channel specific, nor in general) . I don't think I'm missing out on any extra yumyum but please enlighten me.

    What I'm VERY certain of is that we are all being charged extra $ because tubes are matched. Triodes/Sections/Pairs/Quads...
    Kudos I first thought of site in link earlier that at least gave the option to not pay for this...but what if you don't? You get non-matched sections and what does THAT mean to the uneducated...hmm, I'm not sure I like this.

    When I've sold tubes, and in current classifieds I guarantee that the tube(s) doesn't sound like shit with distortion or hum or microphonics when shipped. That should be sufficient to most people...

    I've recently brought this up in regards to matched pairs, exuberant in hindsight, as quoted below.

     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  9. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I'm not the most ninja listener, by any means, but I have occasionally been brought up short by pronounced imbalance. Mostly, it was stuff that I knew was supposed to be in the centre of the stereo image being noticeably off to one side. However, I'd probably not even notice slighter issues. Some people are really irked by that stuff though, whether unmatched tubes or poor driver matching in headphones.

    I guess, as a rule of thumb, wanting as little "wonkiness" at each stage of the chain is not an unreasonable ambition. Cumulative effects of everything being just a little "off" can add up, even if you can't put your finger on what's causing them.
     
  10. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    I understand the point, and I somewhat agree. With thetubestore.com you're paying $5 per tube for equal gain, which is how they define the purpose of matched triode sections. On one hand for those who know they aren't too sensitive about imbalance shouldn't be charged extra and might be happy ever after, but on the other hand is it right to sell a tube that might have a higher risk of channel imbalance, if channel imbalance is the agreed consequence of unmatched sections?
    I don't know, I may be a bit cynical but I can't help thinking that this is a great way of getting a bit of extra cash per tube sold...
     
  11. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    If there's any channel imbalance it drives me nuts! Matched triodes or pairs are a must for me, and worth it.

    EDIT: Non matched being cheaper and still being sold as an "inferior" tube is okay. There's going to be natural variation due to tube construction.
     
  12. Changeling

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    I must have been lucky or have less sensitive ears then.

    EDIT:
    I'm going to get a pair or a single tube which has channel imbalance perceived by the seller, or whoever might want to give to me for free, and have a listen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  13. Changeling

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    @Xecuter @gurubhai Background: I've never heard this phenomenon and tube vendors are charging extra $ for matched sections to avoid channel imbalance, or at least that's what I'm told you get for for paying extra. The only thing I've heard many times pre-tube-death is noise/distortion. Hence; I want to hear this for myself and understand how normal variation between random tubes might sound.
     
  14. Garns

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    This one is 94/60, probably as bad as you are going to get. If the plate resistances are similar between the triodes should be 4db imbalance. I think maybe some TVs only used a single triode of the 6CG7, as you see a lot like this:

    http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/Lindal-Japan-6FQ7-6CG7-Grey-Ribbed-Plate-Top-O-Get-Vacuum-Tube-73-/152438254106

    EDIT: you might need to pick up a few like that to ensure you get one which isn't actively broken in one triode. Luckily it looks like that seller has a wide range of really terribly measuring tubes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  15. Changeling

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    Plus $14.50 shipping :eek:
    I've bought a Telefunken E88CC for less.
    Man tube prices these days....;)

    I guess my point is this: should the regular tube vendors even sell tubes with sections so unmatched that a user could hear channel imbalance? I know upscale doesn't, but their prices are quite high in general.
     
  16. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

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    When you put it like that, I think you're right. But this is very dependent on framing - saying "we have a bunch of tubes, and for $5 extra you can buy one that we've actually measured and has matching channels" is different from "we have measured a bunch of tubes, and for $5 less we will sell you one that is literally defective". I don't know how these tube sellers work so I won't speculate as to which of those statements is true (do they actually measure everything they sell? Seems unlikely for those ebay stores).
     
  17. Changeling

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    Hehe, yes yes, point taken.

    Or they could just say: "This is the price per tube - it's not a piece of junk with potential channel imbalance due to severe differences between sections. If, however you find it to give you channel imbalance and it's indeed due to the tube, we'll exchange it for you, free of charge". But then they couldn't charge the extra $5 ....

    To each his own and I'll leave this discussion as it is. I haven't been convinced that Vali2 is more sensitive than other amps. Channel imbalance is an flaw that people do not like. I haven't heard it and god knows I've bought a lot of tubes unheard of. I'll leave it at that.

    I'll be trying the RCA 6SN7GTB in Vali2 tonight....FrankenVali!
     
  18. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    FWIW channel imbalance was more prominent on Project Ember with the same tube compared to Vali 2.
     
  19. Daveheart

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    You'll find that matched sections won't matter at all in some circuit designs. Not all circuits even make use of both sections. If your amplifier doesn't need matched sections, then there's no need to pay more. Don't automatically assume a tube vendor is being disingenuous just because they're also selling unmatched tubes. While many of us do have tube amps, there are far more tube amps being used by guitar players out there - most of which are on mono circuits and don't have any need for matched sections.
     
  20. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    [​IMG]

    New toy finally arrived :)

    Will post impressions and more pictures in a bit, but I don't expect anything lifechanging from just one tube. Colour me skeptical, but I guess we'll see.
     

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