Preamps

I can't tell which one you prefer!

 

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. As if.

My chain is as follows: ELAC Debut B6 > Parasound HCA-1000a > Parasound P/LD-1100 > Modi Multibit/ vinyl rig

Originally, I had the ELAC's driven from some old Sony receiver. It wasn't bad per say; I thought it provided a decent start for a speaker rig. Anyway, with news of Schiit's 2 channel stuff coming out, I couldn't wait to get a legit preamp and power amp. After following Jason's posts for some time and ballparking the costs of their new pre and amp, I figured that I'll try out the used vintage market instead. My friend recommended Parasound, telling me they were like the Schiit for speakers back in the day (low cost, high performance). After reading everything I could about them on the web (Reddit, audioasylum, audiokarma, avsforum etc, there wasn't much press probably due to their lower cost... but everything I did find was mostly positive), I figured that I could get a nice pre/amp stack for half a kilobuck. Not bad.

I found the power amp first, the HCA-1000a. I used the SYS as a passive pre with it for a couple weeks, before acquiring the Parasound preamp (P/LD-1100). Regarding build, Parasound doesn't mess around. Both components are built like a tank, everything is top notch from the dual mono circuitry inside, to the gold plated RCA jacks on the outside... I'm very proud to have the Parasound stack at the center of my audio rig, it's truly audio jewelry. Enough about the aesthetics, here's a quick comparison bullet style between the passive SYS and active Parasound preamps.

Spoiler: Schiit SYS passive preamplifier

- I agree with many of @sphinxvc 's points above. Overall, the SYS provides a very clean window. I'll be holding onto this one, mainly for testing out new power amps. It gives you a clear picture of what your amp truly sounds like. In the case of the Parasound HCA-1000a, it was obvious it was a very neutral amp. In fact, the SYS's transparency + HCA-1000a's neutrality played very well with the warmer ELAC B6.
- Due to its transparency, much plankton seems to be heard. Not only that, but the sense of separation is better on the passive. Vinyl sounds superb, as the clear window allows more of the vinyl magic to shine through.
- Soundstage width was never a strong point for the ELAC B6, though what it lacks in width, it more than makes up for in depth. On the SYS, soundstage appears wider by a small margin. Impressive layering and depth that opens well far beyond my wall.
- Bass is strong, yet well behaved, when compared to the receiver, which provided excessive bloom to the bottom end. Now, with a real amp, bass is more textured, taut. Moffat magic in full effect thanks to the passive's transparency. Voices are now more lifelike, I once thought that the ELACs had a recessed midrange, but thanks to both Modi Multibit and the clean pre/amp, they now have better presence. Unfortunately, the highs are a bit rolled off on the ELACs (I can't ask for too much from budget speakers), however, certain frequencies aren't as peaky since adding the Modi Multibit and power amp.

Spoiler: Parasound P/LD-1100 active preamplifier

- Obviously has a warmer tilt than the colorless SYS. Substantially more tonally dense; makes the SYS sound thin in comparison.
- The added body makes the soundstage sound less wide. For better or worse? I'm not sure. Whereas the SYS had the instruments further apart, the active appears to fill in the gaps. If anything, it certainly sounds more smooth.
- Due to the added body, it feels a bit trickier picking out smaller nuances and details in the music. I'm guessing this is sacrificing some microdynamics for macrodynamics?
- Great control of bass, adds an extra dollop of punchiness. No loss in bass textures, Moffat bass still very present. Marv once described this as "bass that punches and propagates toward you and how it stops on a dime, and how textures and pitch differentiation can be heard". Real amazing stuff here.
- Very strong center image, imaging height, width, and depth is huge. Much bigger than with the passive, this might be a strength of actives. Better off axis listening. Layering and depth on par with SYS. Multibit magic still there... I would be splitting hairs to say if there's some detriment to the filter's magic due to the active circuitry. Though, the added body does create a more realistic and as enjoyable listening experience. I know it's still miles away from a modded HD650, but I feel like I'm on the right path.

- Superb flexibility is what truly made the Parasound preamp a winner. Multiple line level inputs (including two very high quality "direct" inputs; one for my phono pre and one for my DAC), two variable outputs + one line out, Class A dual mono topology that extends to the headphone output (sounds great from what little time I spent with it, combines solid state bass from the Asgard 2 with some fluidity from Vali), freaking remote control, and matching aesthetics. The SYS is no slouch at all, a no brainer at $50, and I'm sure that Schiit's new passive/active preamp would be a real winner, but if anyone is looking for a low cost stack, I fully recommend Parasound.

 

From what I've read on audio forums.. it seems like parasound used to be more popular back in the day. a lot of their stuff was designed by John Curl who is like nelson pass but a little older and more crotchety?

Can't have really been the schiit of speaker amps back in the day.. power buttons located on front

 

Wow. Thats a neat looking setup.

John Curl still designs with a CTC Builders, which if I needed to reach for an analogy, would be like the Avengers of amp/preamp/phono design. His Vendetta Research Phono preamps were true cult favorites back in the day.

 

good to add this and very good read and very informative posts as well from very good people. i have a sys myself and was great. just it was limited in inputs for me. i went back to an active pre which is my nad 1000s( same as the nad 106) which is a very simple preamp with an alps step attenuaor and seems to work great. i have tons of amps as well for not just mains but subs as well so i have lot of hook-ups going on. i gave my sys to a friend so he can try it out. if schitt can make a passive with multiple inputs and outputs and a step attenuator then i defaintly go that route. my source delivers 1.4v rms and 9v max and i always use good 3ft ic's due to even if my pre is active i like keep cable signaling short as possible for best results.

 

Schiit Happened, 2016, Chapter 13: Into the 2-Channel World: The Saga of Saga (and, um, Freya too).

Edit: Compendium (link in sig) updated.

 

Your findings reflect mine quite well. It is interesting, as your amp is much lighter load at 33k ohms than mine at 10k and your dac's output much beefier, maybe 50 ohms vs 600 in mine. For me the EC I use as pre is simply win across the board. I have very little motivation to finish my relay steppers now.

 

I was curious about what other relay based passive stepped attenuators are out there and I was surprised by the lack of what I saw, not even for high end brands. I found a bunch of DIY boards that have implemented it but no consumer products. There are however plenty of stupidly expensive stepped attenuators out there that use manual rotary switches.

Anyone know of a commercial implementation of relay stepped attenuation besides Schiit?

 

holy poop! that's awesome. next upgrade to speaker system be one of them. love it that schitt is doing this. they make awesome stuff.

 

Audio-GD

 

Thanks! Although not exactly what I meant. It seems like Audio-GD only has active preamps and doesn't have an option to take the passive part alone.

After searching a bit I did manage to find something.

http://www.tentlabsshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=1581

Much more expensive then the Schiit preamp with less features.

 

Parasound? I like this thread a lot now.

 

There's a Parasound on eBay, same model as the one @Pyruvate has, going for $262 shipped if you use buy it now. I'm tempted but I think I will wait a little longer for the Freya because of its absolute flexibility.

 

I *think* Hattor makes a version of their passive preamps with relays?

 

Along similar lines as Tentlabs, you might consider the Goldpoint finished products. Both Tent and Goldpoint are less "commercial" than Schiit though.

 

$628 for Balanced XLR 47step or $491 for 24step
http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html

I think I gonna stick with Goddess Freya with remote, tube buffer + 128steps.

 

Audio-gd preamps prices for reference:

$520 + $50(remote) = $570 (add extra $53 for shipping to USA=$623)
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN.htm

$1150 (add extra $112.50 for shipping to USA=$1262.5)
http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-9/Master-9EN.htm