Rings of Gold: A Tale of Eight Bifrosts

Thanks!

Yes, I'm in the process of evaluating several network audio interfaces/audio over IP solutions, including the RedNet 3, Auralic Aries, SonicorbiterSE and so on. I'm about to the point where I want to see which units benefit from the addition of something like the Mutec MC-3+. After which I'll be able to draw some conclusions and do a reasonably solid write-up.

 

What I was trying to convey was that I find Bifrost multi-bit to be closer in character to Yggdrasil than it is to Gungnir multi-bit and yet that Bifrost is still, somehow, not quite as musical as I recall Gungnir MB being. Bear in mind Gungnir MB is the DAC I'm least familiar with here, and I'm going on memory, and some brief notes, for that, so I might change my tune if I get around to putting all the Schiit DACs back to back at some point.

I didn't really get any sense of euphony from my Bifrost multi-bit, but that's just me and it could be down to how I've had it paired for this thread vs. how I use it normally.

I don't, necessarily, ascribe musicality to warmth or euphony - they can be separate things for me, though they do often go hand in hand.

Perhaps ... hard to say for sure!

My application of the word "bollocks" there is in a different path entirely ... think closer to "bullshit" ... as in "he's talking a load of bollocks"

 

Just posted my thoughts on the Modi MB vs. Bifrost, above.

 

Great post @Torq.

Can you comment on the tonality of the Modi Multibit vs Bifrost Multibit? Some have said they like tonal balance of Modi Multibit better than Bifrost Multibit, esp in the bass.

 

If there is a tonal difference between them, I'm not hearing it currently.

I can barely tell them apart at all, and even when I can it's in very specific and limited ways.

Maybe a tonal difference will become apparent after I've had more time to do protracted listening-for-pleasure with the Modi multi-bit and/or with it having had more power-on-time, but it's too early for me to speculate on that.

 

What about your thoughts on SonicorbiterSE vs Auralic Aries? Which is a better sounding transport?

 

Wow, 33 likes and counting. Does this win as most-liked thread on sbaf?

 

@Torq Thanks so much for undertaking and sharing this comparison. Your clear, thoughtful and entertaining write up was a real pleasure to read!

 

So far, in my setup, Aries beats the SonicorbiterSE fairly convincingly both via optical and USB connections, though whether that remains the case when running though something like the Mutec remains to be seen. Of course, the Aries also offers AES/EBU XLR outputs and, at least into my Yggdrasil, that improves things even further vs. optical or USB.

And, of course, Aries has a bit more functionality, overall.

That said, the Aries was a pain in the arse to get running initially (not because it's hard to setup, but because the Lightning DS app was very unstable and kept crashing during initial configuration) and costs $1,500 ... where as the SonicorbiterSE was streaming from Roon about 2 minutes after I opened the box and I paid all of $300 for it.

My write-up on those units will include all the set up stuff, since they're all quite different in how they do their jobs - particularly the RedNet unit.

 

It will be interesting to compare all the various high end digital transports:

Soundware D100 Pro vs Sonure Microrendu vs Auralic Aries

 

That would be interesting, though it'll be someone other than me that has to do those comparisons (at least for now)! I'll talk more about why when I start that the relevant thread as it's going to be a bit different to this one. For a start it's going to include a bunch of foundation work and information for anyone new to either network audio interfaces or streaming in general.

Also, I'm looking specifically at streaming/audio-over IP interfaces rather than a broader definition of a "transport" in the stuff I'm currently comparing. So far it has been necessary to buy the units I wanted to play with (I already had the Aries), so I am being much more adamant that anything that goes on the list meets my requirements. As things stand, neither the Soundaware D100 Pro (no Roon support) or Sonore microRendu (USB output only) qualify.

Anyway, that's a subject for a dedicated thread.

 

I cannot stress the importance of this. One of my biggest decisions thus far was letting go of my planars and grabbing a modded HD650. It seemed like a crazy idea then (Wait, how can a $300 headphone sound better than a kilobuck one???). But rest assured, Marv and everyone was right. The resolving power of the senns was what opened my ears to DACs, subtle cues that my Audeze couldn't pick up. Don't get me wrong, planars are good at what they do (clarity, bass impact etc), but I wouldn't be where I am today without the HD650. It probably explains why some people (HF, reddit) can't appreciate the multibit sound and still hail ODAC as king.

 

Hell of a write up. Makes me appreciate the Bifrost in new ways! I'm a happy owner and as much as the shiny new car smell of the Modi Multibit entices me, I'm sticking with my Bifrost Multibit and hoping some cool upgrades will be announced soon.

 

Now that the Modi MB write-up is posted, any chance we'll be a spoiled with a detailed (or not so) comparison to Mojo as well? My understanding is that at this point some of the highest value performers around in the < 600$ bracket are Bifrost MB, Modi MB and Mojo. You've now addressed the first two, and only Mojo is missing from the picture...

 

Yes, I can do that; maybe even this week.

I have to think about whether I want to just add it to this thread, or start a new one and make it a broader thing though (i.e. cover more than just those three DACs).

It will be interesting to see how things turn out using my little box as part of this ... as right now I think I can fairly reliably tell either of the Schiit DACs from the Mojo, even if I can't reliably tell Bifrost MB from Modi MB. In other words, it'll be fun (okay, maybe that's not quite the right word) to confirm/deny my own expectations as to how that would turn out ... from a musical perspective.

 

The more the merrier...

In the price bracket, I'd be curious how the SPS DAC3 fares, though I recall you don't get along very well with the TDA1543.

I actually think there is a potential market for your box, even if it's still admittedly small and niche: reviewers. I suspect many reviewers of gear would love to get their hands on a box that allows comparing gear (amps, DACs, cables, etc.) with the flexibility your box seems to be shaping up. For instance, this review of USB cables would have likely been much more... robust with the help of a DBT Assistant* like yours.

* Potential name for the box?

 

It's not been a spectacular favorite of mine ... the TDA1543, that is.

And while I try not to associate specific character/tonality to individual converter ICs, it is surprising to me how often the issues I find with them crop up over and over and over again. No doubt some of that is down to commonalities in how they're put together as much as anything to do with the performance/behavior of the chip in question.

Some of it is probably expectation bias, too. Something to explore further when I have my "box" running as well as I'd like.

Though I don't care how many PCM-1704 chips people want to cram into a box, it's never going to be my thing! Oh, whoops ... latent, not-very-well-surpressed rant nearly got going there ... we weren't even discussing that particular IC.

Anyway, we'll have to see what I get around to looking at. Unlike the higher-end units I've been auditioning, which are, as it is, quite the pain in the posterior to get lined up to listen to, I suspect I'll actually have to buy the stuff in the sub $1,000 camp unless they've got proper distribution. And if I were going to do that I'd like to get a proper measurement rig setup at home so I could do those alongside the listening. I have the raw gear to do that, just not the methodology or practice.

Though maybe I could just partner with @atomicbob on getting measurements, since he is, I believe, local (just someone I've not gotten to connect with in the local headphone group, yet).

I'd like to think so. Though first I have to get it running to my satisfaction. And then there's a gulf of difference between what that means, and what it would mean to make it something useful to a broader array of others, and then, still further, what it takes to put that together in a cost-effectively manufacturable unit. Not needing to make a profit on it helps there a LOT, but still, there are a few somewhat pricey parts involved that limit how cheaply it can be done.

I suppose there could be options in how it was delivered, with some capabilities or features made optional, but that complicates either the hardware or the software (or possibly both), so, again, we'll have to see.

Name wise ...

Think bigger! Something fun, somewhat irreverent and in the FULL spirit of "too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivists" ...

 

And Now for Something Completely Different ...

That is, actually, a blatant lie.

This is, in fact, highly related to this thread and to Bifrost ... or at least it's users ... since I'm assuming that anyone paying more than passing attention here either has a Bifrost or has been thinking of getting one. While the latter category probably aren't that interested, unless they have a "4490" and want to see what the "Uber" is all about (since it's my preferred D/S Bifrost iteration), owners of early units may be.

So ... to the point ...

My original Bifrost now sits with it's new owner; my new Bifrost multi-bit is firmly ensconced in my office rig. And this leaves me with a couple of Bifrost boards that I no longer have a need, nor use, for. So, if someone here would like either (or both, I guess), the Uber board or the USB Gen 1 interface board, just let me know. Probably post in this thread, stating which board(s) you want, rather than via PM, since I don't see a reason to do this in any form other first-come-first-served (we're not talking expensive shit here). Shipping is on me, of course. Two, okay three, caveats, though:

• If @atomicbob wants a crack at these boards for measurements, then he gets them first, and if he doesn't want to keep them I'll ship/hand them to him, and then pay to ship them to whomever is going to keep them.

• The first request from someone with "Friend" status will out-rank someone with non-friend status.

• Don't ask for a board if you can't install it, since you'll need to do that yourself unless you're in the Seattle area (then I'll do it for you). It's not hard, at all, but I don't want you screwing up your DAC as a result of not knowing what you're doing.

So, holler if you want one of these boards.

 

Great stuff Torq! Even better than your write-up on the 'other' site (I'm still catching up though).

BTAB sounds like a work of genius. When can I get one? Agreed, it needs a better name. TOSSER (based on the first part of 'Too Objective for Subjectivists') or The BAT or ...

 

@Torq This has been a fantastic write up and comparison! Makes me want to compare my UBER and 4490 boards a bit more carefully now. If you still have the USB Gen 1 board I would be happy to take it off your hands!