Schiit Ragnarok - aka raggy

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by JoshMorr, May 4, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Just use the DAC SE output. The only thing that is crucial on the Rag is using the balanced outputs. The inputs are differential. They can take either SE or balanced.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    If you have a DAC with balanced outputs, and the balanced outputs are not gimped*, then use the balanced outputs. Or whatever sounds best.

    *it was typical in the past for balanced outputs to be "fake", that is taken from an SE output, and put through a phase splitter, and then through opamps.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Generally this: the more you've used it, the faster it warms up.

    Don't stress about it or use magical charm techniques to speed the process. Just enjoy it for what it is during the process. The amp doesn't change that much over time. If you don't like it day one after its been on for an hour, you will probably never like.
     
  4. Chittagong

    Chittagong New

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    My Ragnarok seems to have died. After a year of working just fine. Three flashing lights and nothing works. Unplugged everything, tried different power cable in both in home and at office. I don't think I have ever mourned loss of an electronic device quite this much, it's such a lovely device with my Yggdrasil and HE-1000s :,-(

    Bit worried about the hassle that will be sending it back to USA from London. I'll keep this thread posted so that other people who might end up with a defective one can see what to expect from the repair process.
     
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I suggest going through the process all the way, then posting when you have data about your warranty claim process so it’s useful to readers.
     
  6. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    I don't think you need to send it to the US. Schiit has distributors in the EU. They might be able to help you out?

    Also, don't discount local electronic shops. It might be cheaper to just go get it checked there first.
     
  7. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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  8. Chittagong

    Chittagong New

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    Ok, so here is a quick update. As a background, my Ragnarok is bought from Sonority Audio in the Netherlands, and I live in London.

    Here’s what Schiit has told me:

    1. All warranty repairs for Schiit products bought from Sonority Audio in Netherlands (“aka Schiit Audio Europe” aka schiit-europe.com) must go through them, even if I live in the UK. I can’t simply send my stuff directly to Schiit USA under warranty.

    2. UK importer Electromod (aka “Schiit Audio Europe” aka schiit.eu.com) will only manage repairs for Schiit products bought from them in the UK.

    3. I can send my stuff directly to Schiit USA outside warranty, but it will be expensive.

    Because I have no desire to risk sending my Ragnarok on a round trip from London to Netherlands just to be forwarded to the USA, and wait for it routed the same way back, I have now opened a RA for an out of warranty repair directly with Schiit. I will DHL my Ragnarok to them tomorrow. I looked up the UK-USA customs-free warranty shipping procedure online and sourced packing supplies from Amazon and the Post Office.

    As Ragnarok has a 5 year warranty and the product itself is not even 5 years old, it will be interesting to see if Schiit will slap me with an “out of warranty” repair bill for not jumping through the Netherlands hoop. I am less concerned about the possible cost, and more interested to see how they manage a situation like this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  9. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    @Chittagong

    Seems rather foolish to me. Schiit Netherlands probably has spare parts, or can order individual parts, from the US. I doubt they would have sent the whole unit across unless absolutely necessary. You also don't know what kind of deal they've got setup, they might have a business deal where distributors get a good unit price but are supposed to eat warranty costs etc. It's not uncommon.
     
  10. Chittagong

    Chittagong New

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    Interesting. For some reason I assumed they all simply route products back to USA for repair. I guess I should ask them whether they would actually repair it on site. That would naturally be quicker and cheaper.

    I will reach out to them and ask whether whether that is indeed the case and will report back.
     
  11. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

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    Schiit Europe in the Netherlands will try to diagnose and repair the Ragnarok on site. I had a similar experience when I lived in the UK two years ago and mine had to be eventually shipped to US from their site. It took some time but their communication is great and the warranty was upheld with no issues.
     
  12. Eric

    Eric New

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    Have does this amp pair with HD800 / SDR?
     
  13. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Stop carpet bombing threads with questions that have already been answered, use the search function.
     
  14. Chittagong

    Chittagong New

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    Ok, thanks to some firm feedback here, my Ragnarok is now headed to Zoetermeer in the Netherlands, and not USA. Mailed Sonority Audio on Friday, and after some clarifying questions about the fault, I got a confirmation late on Tuesday letting me know that I could send it in.

    Used DHL to send it, which cost a pretty penny, but it’s such an expensive amp that I don’t want to risk it being banged around. Plus I want it turned around as fast as possible.

    Packing it safely was a massive pain, eventually managed to find a Post Office box that snugly fits the Ragnarok with bubble wrap and styrofoam padding. Ragnarok is so heavy that it pops half of the bubble wrap if you are not careful. My ocd got best of me with the packing tape though:

    [​IMG]

    Save your original box folks!
     
  15. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    @Chittagong

    Lol, I'm the same with the packing. Typically do the same pattern as that all the way around and have been known to use 1/3 of a roll of tape on one package. You want to take the OCD up one more notch still? Put everything inside a big garbage bag before doing the tape pattern to prevent water and moisture damage, yes I'm evil for even bringing up after you've put it in the mail. I'm sure it will be fine :rolleyes:
     
  16. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    You're both Noobs. Once you've done all of that you're supposed to put it all in a second box.
     
  17. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    No, no, no. You're doing it all wrong.

    Flimsy box + inadequate tape job + full insurance = brand new unit :D
     
  18. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    All,

    Jason has posted a few snippets on Head-Fi in the past couple days re: Ragnarok updates.

    The first (source):

    Maybe #1. Let’s start with a story.

    After doing two complete prototypes of an upcoming product, I realized I still hadn’t addressed two of the three biggest pain points of the current design: the ridiculous chassis cost and difficulty to assemble and service.

    Think about that.

    I made a prototype—a complete, functioning prototype. This is a prototype that included both analog design and firmware.

    Then I decided I had a better gain stage, so I threw that one away and did it again. This time, it went right up to a finished first article chassis, I was so confident in the design.

    And then, in the midst of designing custom parts that really address issues with other designs, I realized that I’d built a shiny turd. Yep, it was a big improvement on the current design, and it would be pretty much what everyone would expect it to be, but it completely, utterly ignored the very painful assembly of the product, and didn’t address the stupendously expensive chassis—both of which could easily be addressed.

    Yeah.

    I literally sat there, staring at the screen of the Surface Pro I use as an engineering computer, and thinking, You are the dumbest butthead on the planet.

    And, as I sat open-mouthed, it was like my brain opened up and a brand-new design dropped into it, whole and finished. Because part of the problem was heatsinking. But we already had heatsinks for Vidar. If I went away from the idea of using the chassis as a heatsink, I would reduce the cost of the chassis and use parts we already had. And, if I realigned the way we did the volume pot, it could have a motorized part that we already had to the remote control. And if I did that, it could use the light pipes we already designed to eliminate LED alignment problems. And the whole thing could be a stamped subassembly using our standard-height pin headers. And it wouldn’t have to screw to the front panel, it could be held in by the pot and locator pins. And it could bolt to a steel subchassis for perfect alignment.

    Holy hell, I thought, I can actually fix all of the problems with the design—and I can do it with parts we already have!

    But…but the other design was pretty much done. If I went this new direction, I would literally be throwing everything away. The board would be entirely new. The heatsink clips would be new. The interior stamping would be new. It wouldn’t look like the old product.

    But it would be so much better! yelled the positive, go-get-em side of me.

    But it would be soooo weird and different! the negative side of me yelled back.

    I really, really, really wanted to find something wrong with the new design. Because, let’s face it, when you’re hundreds of hours in on something, the last thing you want to do is throw all the work away. Especially if you’d already done that once.

    And so I looked at it. Really looked at it. And did some to-scale sketches, to see if there were any gotchas. Because it really was a new direction, even if it used a whole lot of parts we already had. Who knows what might happen when I started doing the equivalent of genetic engineering on the line.

    But, the deeper I got in, the better it actually looked. Sure, there were tradeoffs, like less horizontal space in the chassis, and there were risks, like the need for higher precision alignment between the boards and front panel…but in general, it was much better.

    **** it, tear it down, I thought finally.

    And by teardown, I mean teardown:
    1. New boards, both main and control—complete rework, different sizes and shapes, re-lay-out, and reroute.
    2. Completely new metal, starting with 2D test/visualization stuff, then 3D CAD, then new first articles.
    3. New thermal clips for the heatsinks.
    “So what’s this mystery product that you screwed up, screwed up again, and now are in the process of re-doing a third time?” someone is asking.

    Heck, I thought I’d given you enough hints. It’s Ragnarok.

    I can hear the gasps from the back of the audience. But again: we are always working on new product and new versions of everything. Of course we are. Every sane company is. That’s how it works.

    Aaaaannnddd…there’s no guarantee the one I’m working on right now won’t end up in the trash as well. I thought I’d had it solved, two times before.

    That’s right. I can screw up again.

    That’s why there’s no timeframe for this, and no guarantee it’s going to happen. If you ask me, I’ll say “I don’t know.” If you ask [email protected] or [email protected], they’re say “We don’t know.”

    So why am I torturing you with this information?

    First, because I can at least give you a thumbnail sketch of what I’m working on, and second, because I’d like to hear what you think. Take a chance to weigh in. I won’t guarantee anything, but we do listen.

    Here’s where we are:
    1. If you like the current Ragnarok, you may hate the new one. It’s a complete rethink in the vein of the Lyr 2/3 changeover—different topology and output, different chassis, different thermal management.
    2. It’ll have Vidar heatsinks, so it will run very cool—that’s a ridiculous amount of heatsinking for its power output. Power output will be the same, or nearly the same, as the outgoing version.
    3. Of course, it will have remote control.
    4. Of course, it will have speakers/headphones/both selectable with a separate control.
    5. It will still have 3 gain levels.
    6. It’ll use a new topology we haven’t used before, but it will still be differential.
    7. I’m holding back a couple of features which I don’t feel like discussing right now, but I think you’ll be excited about.
    Beyond that, what do you think? Like I said, no guarantees, but we will listen.

    Disclaimer: I’m afraid that there isn’t much I can do to make the product smaller or more desk-friendly, but that’s why racks were invented. I also can’t break the laws of physics, nor make a new Ragnarok much more or less expensive than the outgoing model.

    And again, this design still may get schiit-canned, sidetracked, display a showstopper-level bug or bugs when deeper into development, or simply never happen.

    And there’s no timeframe.

    So don’t get too excited.

    ---------------

    The second (source):

    Circlotrons and new topologies. Circlotrons are a monumental pain in the butt due to the complexity of their power supplies, the need for insane matching of the transformer secondaries to cancel noise coming in from the AC side of the line, and the need for summers for single-ended output. Pivot Point was our first shot at a differential/SE topology that didn't need summers. It works pretty well. However, we now have three more candidates that surpass this topology. Don't get too excited about a Jotunheim 2, however--so far, the best of them (for a power amp) needs to have microprocessor oversight to make sure it doesn't get out of balance. An analog version would require a really bizarre servo, or device matching (not a great idea in this current SMD world.) I'd say, long term, best case, we will replace all Circlotron designs with higher-performing, better-sounding, less-compromised topologies. However, there's still plenty of development to do. So, again, maybe. Perhaps. Or not. It's the future. If you can predict it accurately, quit your day job, get off the forums, and invest/gamble your way to money nirvana. If that's what floats your boat.

    ---------------

    Prior to the above posts, I've been chatting with a few folks that are familiar with the amp and will summarize the collective feedback for @schiit and would love if others familiar with the amp could build off it too.
     
  19. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Bulletpoints re: feedback from me and a few others that have been speculating / wishlisting recently:
    • Most of the feedback centered on usability / functionality items, not sound quality
      • Standby mode or power switch/button on the front. Would make things much easier on crowded racks or entertainment centers.
        • A front standby button was mentioned later on in the chapter cited under #1 above with respect to the 20W Class A amp being floated around.
      • Remote control
        • Is the convenience of putting gain and headphone/speaker selection on the remote worth the tradeoff of avoid unwanted surprises from unintentional button presses?
        • Standby off/on via remote?
      • Visual feedback from a distance about what mode it is in (speaker vs. headphone).
        • Also, why does there need to be a "both" setting? Seems unnecessary.
        • Could just do speakers vs. headphones with a switch on the front like the high / low gain switch on other products?
      • Visual feedback from a distance about volume level. Possible to incorporate an LED / light tunnel into the volume knob?
    • No tubes. Given previous design notes, seems tubes are unlikely. If they have to be implemented, the ability to turn them off / bypass completely.
    • Less feedback / better staging.
    • Some on Head-Fi asked for 128-step volume control instead of 64-step. Don't think this matters too much.
    Separately, would it be possible to simply offer existing Ragnarok users a separate upgrade which allows remote control functionality for volume?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  20. Chittagong

    Chittagong New

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    My Ragnarok is back from repairs. I thought I’d post a timeline of the repair, so that other SBAFers can find it, in case their raggy breaks down.

    12 April
    Raggy breaks down, I email Schiit to ask if I can send it straight to USA. They reply quickly that sure, but it will be an expensive Out Of Warranty repair, and I should send it to Sonority Audio in the Netherlands instead.

    13 April
    I request return authorisation from Sonority Audio in the Netherlands.

    16 April
    I receive return authorisation and courier Ragnarok from London to Netherlands. DHL takes around £100 for the pleasure.

    20 April
    I enquire whether the Ragnarok has arrived. Sonority confirms it has.

    11 May
    I enquire whether the repair has progressed. Sonority replies that they actually need to send it to USA and will do so tomorrow.

    14 June
    I enquire whether there is any news from USA about the repair. Sonority replies that it should be returning to Europe soon.

    26 June
    Sonority informs the device is being shipped back tomorrow.

    29 June
    Device is back in London.

    Turnaround time was 11 weeks.

    When I received my device back my heart skipped a few beats as my HE-1000s wouldn’t make a beep.

    I cycled all inputs and gains. Powered off device. Checked XLRs. Checked my Yggdrasil. Swapped cables. Power cycled everything. Tried another source to Yggdrasil. Tried single ended headphones. Tried my second Yggdrasil. Still no a sound. Then I finally decided to RTFM and found that Ragnarok also has a speaker-only mode that mutes the headphone outputs. Long press of input button and finally... sweet sweet jazz from my HE-1000s!

    So happy right now listening to my Schiit stack. I need to move out for two months due to a leak on Monday, so I am thankful I got one weekend with my gear.

    Hope this writeup is helpful. Here’s to Ragnarok!

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     

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