Schiit Valhalla 2

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Cspirou, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Robert777

    Robert777 Acquaintance

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    This is a very sobering post, and a good point, thank you. I was about to embark on the embittered tube rolling path to make my Valhalla 2 / HD800 combo slam my socks off but I think I would be disappointing in the cost / benefit ratio. A new amp or new headphones sounds like a much safer investment of time.

    Cheers.
     
  2. Robert777

    Robert777 Acquaintance

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    Despite my above post I went ahead and installed a matched pair of JJ Gold Pins. More slam, more bloom, same textural qualities and holographic soundstage. The HD800 now seems less dry and soft.
     
  3. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    Not sure if anyone saw this, but the Valhalla 2 makes an appearance in the latest Stereophile Musician as Audiophile series:

    http://www.stereophile.com/content/musicians-audiophiles-dan-weiss

    Dan Weiss uses one with the Sennheiser HD600 after auditioning 70 pairs of headphones. Sounds like one of us! No info on how or why he selected the Valhalla though.
     
  4. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    Well, got myself a pair of JJ E88CC to warm up my Valhalla 2. What I got was bad, thunderous feedback upon plugging my headphones in.

    Rolled my old tubes in there and no problem. Time to send these back to tube depot I guess.

    What could go so wrong in the tubes to do that? It was like the feedback you can get when plugging an electric guitar into an amp or something like that.

    Further, is there any way bad tubes like that can hurt the amp?
     
  5. lycosa

    lycosa New

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    Nice catch! Dan's a friend and fellow musician. Many people in his orbit (including me) swear by the 600s as their reference and I think that his preference for it after all that auditioning definitely steered him toward the Valhalla since they are such a well-matched and popular combo. But you're right. They didn't really go into detail about that. I kind of wish he would've mentioned what other amps he considered. I'll ask!
     
  6. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    Awesome! Let us know if you find anything interesting out.
     
  7. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    One question for people who have owned the Valhalla 2 for a while - have you noticed how the volume pot turns more easily once the amp has warmed up a bit? When the amp is cold, the volume knob offers a fair bit of resistance when you turn it, but it is very smooth throughout the range. After about 30 minutes of warm up, it becomes quite a bit easier to turn but slightly uneven in terms of resistance. It sometimes feels a bit notchy in the area in which the volume pot was left for a long time. Say you leave it at 11 o'clock for a few hours while the amp is turned on - then that area offers a bit more resistance for the first few turns when you are turning the volume up or down. Not really an issue, but just wanted to see if anyone experienced the same thing.

    I can only assume this is due to it running quite hot so there is some thermal expansion going on. Possibly other hot-running Schiit amps like the Asgard or the Lyr exhibit the same behavior.
     
  8. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    Haven't noticed this myself, but haven't been paying attention. Shouldn't be much different from running the lid of a stubborn jar under hot water.
     
  9. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    I've been trying some tube rolling in the Valhalla 2 recently. I have a bunch of 6922-style tubes from when I owned the Mjolnir 2, and with these my conclusion is much the same as others - don't bother. Different kinds of 6922 alter the tonality and technicalities very slightly, but not enough to justify spending more than, say, $40 on tubes. However, inspired by @atomicbob's preference for the 6CG7 in the Vali 2, I figured I would also give them a go as input tubes in the Val2 (this is within spec). I will say this as forcefully as I can:

    Go out and get a pair of 6CG7's to run as input tubes. Until you do, you have not heard what the Val 2 is capable of.

    Before I got the 6CG7's, I thought that Val 2 was a nice amp but with some problems, which I would address in time by moving to another amp. The 6CG7's give the amp a significant upgrade, enough that I now think it is my end-game amp.

    The tubes I have are a pair of NOS 1960's RCA black plate 6CG7's which I got for $30 off ebay. I compared against 5 pairs of 6922-type tubes in the Val 2 including a very nice pair of Miniwatt E188CC's. The 6CG7's are far better than any of them. Here's what I hear vs any of these other tubes. Chain is AES -> Yggdrasil -> Val 2 -> SBAF modded HD650s.
    • Blacker background. I'd say Val 2 is ahead of Jotunheim in this area now.
    • Improved clarity.
    • Noticeably improved microdynamics.
    • Soundstage changes shape and location. Stock Val 2 the soundstage is some distance in front of you. With the 6CG7's the soundstage is dead level with your ears, and wider, though still retaining the same depth. You could compare it to the change from single-ended to balanced on Jotunheim.
    • Stock Val 2 has a hazy veil which also messes up macrodynamics. This is gone.
    • Complete absence of any kind of "tubey" sound. The Valhalla 2 was never particularly tubey to start with, but now I can really not ascribe any particular sound to it at all. It just sounds... accurate. The reproduction of timbre is spookily good.
    • Bass is improved. It is no longer as soft, it gains some extension and has a satisfying slam to it. It is rather nice for electronic music, which was definitely not the case before. It is rather elevated in the midbass (ie beyond what I would expect with the HD650s), but there is no bloom or bleed into other parts of the frequency spectrum.
    If it sounds like I am hyping the hell out of these tubes, that's because I am. They really do transform the amp. If you want to give this a go, you could get a pair of the new-stock EH 6CG7's for $40, but NOS prices are actually lower than this. Brent Jesse will sell you a pair of "butt ugly" RCA cleartop 6CG7 for $25. Or you could do like I did and find a pair of US made black plate 6CG7's (supposedly the best) on ebay for a similar price. The point is that these are not expensive tubes.

    EDIT: let me clarify a bit the relative impact of the changes I observed above. This won't make Val 2 into a slamming monster. It improves the bass somewhat and macrodynamics are improved by the removal of the haze, but it still lags Jotunheim in utmost speed and clarity. So for electronic music I still find Jotun slightly superior. Really what this does is make Val 2 into a super version of itself, with the big improvements being to soundstage, plankton and overall just an audibly less distorted sound. It sounds incredible on well-recorded, naturalistic, spacious mixes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  10. Bobcat

    Bobcat Friend

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    Thanks for that tip! I ordered a set and it really is great!

    Rob
     
  11. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I was lucky enough to receive a second-hand Valhalla 2 yesterday morning (thank you @velvetx) and I have been enjoying it non-stop since then. It is my first tube amp and I'm running it with my stock HD650s out of the DAC in my NFB-28. I spent all of day one listening with the stock Russian tubes and loving it, in fact I was so guilty of new toy syndrome I didn't feel any need to swap in the pair of 6CG7's I had also picked up. Compared to the amp of my NFB-28, I was enjoying more realistic staging and instrument timbre as well as a more engaging listen overall.

    However, my goal was still to evaluate the tube recommendation provided by @Garns from the point of view of someone who a) has no experience tube rolling b) no real qualms with the stock Valhalla 2 performance, at least not at its price point. To do so I woke up this morning and picked five test tracks, listened to them in order and then took notes, trying to be as critical with what I didn't like about the stock presentation as possible. Then I shut off the amp and swapped the stock input tubes out for a pair of Tung-Sol 6CG7's I acquired on eBay for ~$48 before letting them warm up to listen to the tracks back in reverse order.

    I think @Garns has already summed up the improvements these tubes offer as best as could be said in layman's terms, so instead I will sum up my impressions with a single GIF and the track notes as I recorded them:

    [​IMG]

    BEFORE (Stock tubes)
    1. Miles Away - D.A.R.K.:
    Soft/weak bass impact, Good vocal panning but mostly an un-engaging listen due to relatively soft bass. I actually prefer the NFB-28 and it's exaggerated macrodynamics for electronic tracks such as this one to the stock Val2, but this was to be expected.
    2. On Turn Off - Echobelly: Treble is shimmer happy on this track and I feel the stock tubes lack the proper decay in this region. Guitars are awesome though, clapping is focused in each ear, bass still sort of soft/weak and snare hits are being frequency masked, sort of hazy vocalization near the end.
    3. Barbarism Begins At Home - The Smiths: Absolutely awesome guitar, bass is a little rounded, great panning, haze on vocals again? Stage clearly presented a very narrow distance ahead of listeners face and pans around to the sides of head. Presentation starts to feel a little too lean towards the end and I lose a bit of interest.
    4. At the Lost and Found - Marine Research: Hints of haze throughout the mids still, cymbal hits extend just past ear, well controlled distortion but I have to watch the volume, could maybe use a bit more dynamic crash during hook without harshness.
    5. Loud And Clear - The Cranberries: Satisfying dynamics at start (read: good enough), cannot discern too much vocal haze here, acceptable mid-bass levels and impact. Bit of haze on vocalization again towards the end, overall clean and airy no real complaints, could use a bit more microdynamic shading vs. best I've heard this track

    AFTER (6CG7 a.k.a meme magic tubes, tracks listed in reverse order)
    1. Loud And Clear - The Cranberries:
    More microdynamic for sure, that's what jumps out at me. Sound stage shift could have happened? Though midbass levels appear unchanged there is an improvement in macrodynamic interplay between instruments. Noticeable improvement in vocal clarity. This may have not been the best test track choice as it's a little compressed in both panning and dynamics, but I still noticed improvements here.
    2. At the Lost and Found - Marine Research: Vocals seem a little cleaner/clearer, better treble decay, better positioning and focus of backup vocals. Macrodynamic crash during hook is just as impactful as before but also better controlled and less distorted. Soundstage width has been stretched out positively. Perhaps a tiny rise in midbass levels. More engaging regardless.
    3. Barbarism Begins At Home - The Smiths: This is where I really began to notice improvements. Johnny Marr's guitar is still awesome but feels even more vibrant now, bass is less rounded but no real quantity/slam increase (typical 80s style soft snare production, so I wasn't expecting much here). Panning still great, feels like there is a lot going on in distinct parts of the stage. Feels like vocals are less hazy but this could easily be bias, impossible to say for sure after a long break between listens. This track makes it apparent the stage has in fact shifted to be level with ears, but it is subtle. Retains same depth. OK, vocalization part halfway through is definitely less hazy than before. Better panning of vocalization as well without losing focus on bass guitar. Engagement factor through the roof. Final 1:30 of the track is actually eargasmic, I was losing interest at this point with stock tubes but I am hooked into the guitars now.
    4. On Turn Off - Echobelly: Microdynamic shading I can only describe as spooky good here, background blacker than first listen. Guitar is vibrant and demands attention. Claps have not moved any further from the ear. Again, overall engagement dial turned to 11. Still a shimmer happy track but there is no frequency drowning from the shimmer and individual resets of cymbals are now discernible. No change in nature of vocalization that comes on towards the end, but this may just be a product of the track.
    5. Miles Away - D.A.R.K.: Apparent increase in mid bass but still tasteful, not a monster change but hits with just a little extra bit impact and extension to make it that much more satisfying over stock listen. Bass guitar feels better defined and less tubby. I felt like I was forcing myself to be engaged in the stock presentation, now I am actually engaged. Same improvement in microdynamics as with other tracks. Insanely holographic vocal layering towards the end.

    I am going to take the hype one step further and say Schiit should include these tubes as the stock ones, add $50 to the price if they have to and call it a Valhalla 3. Just kidding. They are worth the investment though, I feel like they add a little extra that makes an already great value an even better one. I'm not going to bother with swapping the output tubes as I don't feel like I need any sort of tonality change with the stock 650s. Hopefully this helps validate a bit of what @Garns described.
     
  12. kiss m

    kiss m Dill weed - acquaintance

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    What a great format for a tube comparison, thank you for sharing!
     
  13. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    Yes, thanks for the write up!

    Let me add that, in my system, the other thing that really helped the Valhalla 2 was putting a power conditioner on the line - I guess because it has AC tube heaters. I already mentioned this and gave some impressions over in the power conditioning thread (FWIW those impressions are with 6922 tubes). I can't unreservedly recommend anyone else to do this, because your power might already be way cleaner than in my inner city apartment, but it may be worth auditioning one if you get a chance.
     
  14. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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    Trying to avoid nervosa, but I am using Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes for my Val 2, and am curious if anyone has compared them to 6CG7s?
     
  15. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    My take is that in Val 2, different tubes from the same family sound more or less the same. The output stage seems to linearise the differences away. All the 6DJ8/6922/7308/E88CC/E188CC/6N23P I tried in the Val 2 (including a pair of Orange Globes that Olor1n sent with it) only really differed in slight changes of tonality and technicalities. Likewise within the 6CG7 family: to do due diligence I picked up a second, different, pair of these and cannot reliably distinguish them from the first. So, as others have said, tube-rolling on the Val 2 within a particular tube family seems like a waste of time and money.

    However the 6CG7 family sound markedly different from the 6922 family. In essence it comes down to clearer, less veiled and less distorted. The 6CG7 has different electrical characteristics and is a more linear tube. It's not just shuffling around different tubes with the same datasheet. So my view is that it would be reasonable from a non-nervosa perspective to try exactly one pair.

    Re tonality - I heard the OGs as rich in the mids and slightly rolled off on top. The 6CG7 I have (US made black plates) are similar but with a noticeable bump in the midbass: more pronounced, though less bloomy.
     
  16. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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    @Garns, thank you for your reply - you are a true and friendly resource here.
     
  17. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Having a hard time finding info about Valhalla 1. Specifically with the HD800. Was that amp just banished from reality or what? Anyone heard it?
     
  18. Ray

    Ray Friend

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  19. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    Hi, I just bought a pair of E88CC Reflektor tubes for my Valhalla 2. The left channel is exhibiting a continuous tone / buzz. It was the right channel, but I swapped the tubes over and now it is the left. Does this mean one of the tubes is duff or is it just sensitive to a ground loop? If I switch to low gain the buzz is much quieter.
     
  20. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    Okay, the buzzing seems to go away after the amp has been on awhile. But returns if I switch the amp off and back on again. Probably just needs to warm up.

    If I tap the case of the Valhalla 2 then there is a transient high pitched tone through the other channel. Is this normal?

    With these tubes and the GE 6CG7's that I have, there is an additional low quiet tone on both channels.

    Many thanks
     

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