Sennheiser HD650

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Jeangenie, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    You have a special relationship with treble that not all ears share. Regardless, it makes sense to try another end of the amp spectrum to get a sense for what the 650 can do.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    I would actually agree with @Psalmanazar. If you really like the Vali 2 + HD650 sound, the Jot is a potentially risky move in the wrong direction.

    Good news if you like that sound, the Vali 2 will take you a long way before you find more expensive amps that are really worth it. Bad news is said expensive amps are quite expensive, but, IMO, worth it for what more they get out of the 650.
     
  3. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    Not recommending that @Steakface do a 180 in sound preferences; I didn't mean for him to buy it unheard, but to try it. His post was a muse on what the 650 is capable of with different amping. I think of the Jot as a very aggressive solid state counterpart to the more relaxed Vali 2. And if he did like it, price-wise it's hard to find better price/performance ratio introductions to these variations on what the 650 can do so the parallel seemed obvious to me.
     
  4. TRex

    TRex Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    389
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    @Steakface very much agree with above opinions. Jotun is a Defcon 5 amp - its sheer power, transient, clarity at expense of glarey treble & paper-thin stage depth. I'm a neutral head, yet it makes HD650 slams my balls every now and then. That said, if you're unable to get chance to demo and/or brave enough to gamble, do it.

    Edit: Good luck listening to Sia (and most modern pop recording) with Jotun. I absolutely admire people who run Jotun+HD800.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I actually like neutral amounts of treble (I loved @HitmanFluffy 's crazy amp and eat shit like a Marine and listen to the horror that is ghetto interfaces -> HS5s for casual listening all the time) and think the 650 is slightly too dark with some nulls after 11 khz or so before rolling off. It's not good with super recessed or muddy cymbals at all. The problem is the Jot is more forward than neutral and the timbre is totally off and makes the 650 more forward than neutral somehow. The Jot is sun and steel samurai movie bright like a bad Sabre without the inner warmth as the Jot is slightly overly damped. It also kills depth and headstage.

    Then again despite bitching about it, I don't actually dislike the Jot with the 650 like I do the smaller/cheaper AudioGDs, crap tubes, Vali 2, the vanilla Crack, and the Torpedo 3 (hallway staging ugh). I feel it's about = the Neurochrome or something as both designs have serious potential but in their current form are worse than many of the better TI chip based amps, which can actually be good. Any headphone other than the HD 650, the UE 6000, or a prefazor Audeze with the Jot would probably be like getting gored in the forehead by a bull though.

    As @Hands said, people who dislikes the modi regular -> Asgard 2 treble (neutral volume but mosfet haze) and likes the Modi Multibit -> Vali 2 treble (veiled and rolled) is going to want to run over the Jot with a truck.
     
  6. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    Get where you're coming from now; I skipped over the Asgard and what you're saying makes sense. I recalled reading that the pivot point topo in the Jot had assuaged issues with treble glare from older non-rag schiit ss amps and the Jot doesn't give me the icepick effect even the modded 650 so I believed that, but I skipped too many mental steps and should have explained my logic more thoroughly at the time. Personally, I have been really liking the Jot with tubes in front of it. Without a pre I find the soundstage height stopping at my forehead to be very distracting, but that disappears with a pre and any unnatural eardrum pressure I would feel at high volumes is mitigated and the characteristic forwardness of the Jot is addicting with the 650. What's your personal favorite gear with the 650, by the by?
     
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah I just really hate steely / glarey treble timbre but can tolerate non-Sabre DS DACs and actually prefer them to all R2R but Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil which are unusable to me right now with regards to warm up due to frequent outages as I live in the woods and only being able to use them for headphones and not some of the other crap I own.

    Idk what my favorite was as it's a headphone and I haven't heard the rigs I would probably dig the most as it would merge pro audio sources with high roller audiophile endgame tube amps that emulate the sound of a TL072 or something but in 3D and those worlds don't really mix and the best tube amp I've heard with headphones is really a low powered speaker amp. Probably HMF's Gungnir Multibit -> Saga active stage (necessary due to gimped schiity jfets. needs to ditch those for something way beefier like good op-amps heh) -> custom amp or just straight Yggdrasil -> Rag on home theater power that got rid of most of the glare with only the CPU grit remaining. My favorite Schiit amp would probably be a "Mjolnir 3D" if that ever happens with reduced warmth and more detail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  8. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tejas
    @Psalmanazar lives in the wilderness.. seems so fitting.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Steakface

    Steakface Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan
    It's funny you guys mention all of this about the Jot - I picked it up on a whim for my 400i's and it gave me a moderate case of tinnitus. No joke, I even went to the doctors because I didn't know what the hell was going on. Queue me into actually doing research on it and it turns out it's probably not the best sound signature for me, but the Vali 2 seemed right up my alley with people saying it's a very laid back amp. But even after the Vali 2, I felt like I still needed to "fix" something about the 400i's because they just didn't sound right in the treble.

    I think I've arrived at the conclusion that I will just prefer a more laid back setup, for my ears sake.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The solution is to ditch Hifimen.
     
  11. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,426
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FALSE.

    Their old stuff is fantastic.

    Sell the 400i and pick up a nice HE-500 instead. Smoother and less shouty, especially in the vocals.

    As for the Modi/Vali 2 combo, the 650s are fine on it, but not at their best. The HE-500 is a much better match.
     
  12. Steakface

    Steakface Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan
    I haven't listened to them in a while and they're collecting dust on my shelf. I'll probably end up selling them soon, used prices on them are dropping pretty fast.

    As for their older stuff, never heard any of it. I'd like to give them a listen one day if I can trial them somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  13. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    I can confirm that the Jot + 400i combo gave me a headache at above moderate volumes as well. Don't bother "fixing" the 400i. Just get less glaring headphones. Compared to the 650, I can only get through about one song with the 400is before I am annoyed.

    I really like the Valhalla 2 amp for relaxed listening with the 650.
     
  14. Steakface

    Steakface Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Michigan
    I've considered the Valhalla 2 before, but never pulled the trigger on it. Maybe now is a good time to reconsider, and it would be at a good time too since the Amperex Orange Globe I use in the Vali 2 came in a matched pair. How would it differ from the Vali 2?

    Edit: Doing some quick research and it seems the Valhalla will have better soundstage and resolution.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  15. Ray

    Ray Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,302
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    On the range
    I really don't think the vahalla2 will be that much of an upgrade. I bought numerous amps under 1k and they were just side grades to each other. It wasn't until I started buying custom amps I noticed significant improvements.
     
  16. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    The Valhalla 2 is an output transformerless tube amp suitable for high Z cans like the Sennheisers. The Vali 2 is a hybrid amp with more wide ranging compatibility but is a bit closer to a solid state sound than a traditional tube amp. (Though even the Valhalla 2 is reportedly a bit closer to the solid state end than many tube amps.)

    Take a look at this relative comparisons chart Marv made in the first post: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...ompendium-guide-to-schiit-amps-headamps.3058/

    Where the Valhalla 2 really excels IMO is in creating a sense of immersion in the music in a way the Jot doesn't and the Vali 2 does about 70-80% as well. Valhalla 2 soundstage is more 3D and has more separation and as a result you get more microdetail (aka plankton); acoustics like string instruments sound amazing and lifelike. In exchange you lose some focus and slam. But if you're looking for relaxed and immersive listening, it's quite satisfying.

    But the really good tube amps are in the $1500 range and up as Ray intimates above. :( so it's a matter of how much you're willing to spend.
     
  17. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,426
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For the 400i get the Modi/Vali 2 and call it a day. It's not going to scale tremendously with more expensive gear and the Vali 2 warmth will help tame some of the 400i weaknesses.

    /discussion.

    Back to 650 talk? |\/|
     
  18. TRex

    TRex Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    389
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Have been running Jotun + HD650 for 2 months, I finally crave for smooth relaxed (but not boring) sound especially for classical & jazz. Crack would be to bassy "fun" and Valhalla 2 would be too dry on treble. Options are Vali 2 (second amp) / Saga (feeds Jot) / Freya (feeds Jot) / Mojo 2 (second amp). Which one do you folks think the best choice?
     
  19. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't disagree with the bolded based on my experience with the Valhalla 2 before I upgraded to the T3 (impressions). However, I wanted to link @Garns' comments about how a simple tube roll to 6CG7s addressed the negatives you mentioned with his Valhalla 2. (post 1; post 2; confirmed by @k4rstar). I disagree with the underlined re: the Valhalla 2.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  20. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    US East
    Could you elaborate on the last point? How would you describe it? It's physically relaxing for me. Also: I intend to give the 6CG7's a more critical listen at some point, but I wasn't hearing the same "it's clearly an improvement" results as the posts you linked to when I tried them, unfortunately. Maybe I'll send them to @Garns at some point for him to compare.
     

Share This Page