Sennheiser HD660S Speculation

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Junki, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. nithhoggr

    nithhoggr Author of the best selling novel Digital Jesus

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    Which might not be a terrible idea, given the market that the HD650 is selling to these days. It's kinda bizarre to go on Reddit and see people asking about what bare minimum DAC / amp to get for their HD6XX. Since the HD650 is apparently a popular headphone among beginners nowadays, it's not crazy that Senn is making a portable-friendly variant of it.

    Which raises the question -- if Senn does retire the HD650 (which I'm not convinced they will, but totally possible), what'll happen to the HD6XX? Will Massdrop just stop doing 6XX drops? Will it be updated to a HD660S variant? Will it stay and be a way to still get a HD650?
     
  2. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    I suspect that Sennheiser will stop selling the HD650 themselves, but it will continue to be available as the Massdrop HD6XX.

    Look at what's happening with Massdrop branded products: https://www.massdrop.com/audiophile/drops
    Open the Massdrop exclusive items that have less than a day left. You'll find a statement that these are one-day drops but they get refreshed daily, and the items are shipped immediately. Effectively, these are not "drops" — Massdrop has the items in stock for immediate sale. I have a feeling that this is also what will happen to the HD6XX.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  3. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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  4. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    I am going to wait until CanJam Berlin. If these things exist and are good, nice. If not Sennheiser still exists a spare HD600 is more important.

    The HD600 + tubes + Metal are enough to hold off the upgraditis symptoms..

    Side note: with the HE1 system Sennheiser made tubes an integral part of the headphone system, will there be an evolution of that system in Berlin? Now that would be exciting.
     
  5. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    There's a Sennheiser shop in Berlin that has a HE1, just give them a call if you want listen to it. Might be less crowded than canjam.
     
  6. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    That is a good idea. Thank you.
     
  7. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    I got this from some googling around. This is Beyer's explanation on impedance:

    The impedance is determined by the voice coil (dynamic headphones), which is a winded copper wire (coated to avoid a short-circuit). This copper wire is available in nearly every length, but not in every gauge (thickness) and a thicker wire has less resistance than a thin wire ("less fits through"). The magnetic field of the voice coil depends on the number of windings of the coil, causing a low impedance system to use a thicker (also heavier) wire and since the membrane foil can't be infinitely light-weight, the moving mass (voice coil and diaphragm) is relatively high. It's pretty clear that a higher mass can't move as easily (following an audio signal) as a lower mass. This low mass can easily be accomplished with thinner (lower weight) wire, but the thinner wire has a higher impedance. This means that the DT 770 PRO with 250 ohms sound more natural, but plays (depending on the used headphone amplifier) not as loud as the 80 ohms version.

    The transducers of the 80 ohms versions are stronger and more powerful, a bit more low-mid accentuated and therefore this version is ideal for powerful reproducing of low-frequency material f.e. coming from a bass guitar. The 250 ohms version sounds more smooth and voluminous and can be used for mixing situations within the studio to analyse the whole mix

    A newer one also from Beyer:

    In general, it can be stated that the resolution and precision of the high mids and highs is slightly better at higher impedances. There are barely any differences worth mentioning apart from this.

    So a bit worse highs. Even so, I'm pretty sure the 650 diaphragm is already breaking up at the higher frequencies, so lowering it shouldn't ruin the smoothness too much. Probably the only diaphragm with high-freq break up behavior truly worthy of being matched with 300ohm voice coil is the HD800, which is why they kept the S at 300. If this lower impedance results in higher efficiency and better bass/ better macrodynamics/less compression then im all for it.
     
  8. Solrighal

    Solrighal Facebook Friend

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    Ever since buying my HD 650 & pairing it with the Ember MkII I've been completely content with the sound. I use Sonarworks to flatten it out a bit and I have a bump in the EQ down low. I didn't think I'd ever buy another pair of heaphones and my wife has been happy with that.

    Now though, hmmm...
     
  9. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    Hopefully this upgraded driver gets rid of some of the "greyness that the HD650 has now.
     
  10. Solrighal

    Solrighal Facebook Friend

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    "Greyness"? Please explain.
     
  11. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    It’s a slight “mattness” to the sound I have noticed, compared to some other headphones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  12. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Guess the "are they real" debate is settled. $499.95. Wonder what the Amazon holiday price will be? I'm widely guessing here. $386. :punk:I'm keeping my expectations to a minimum. If they are HD650 with sub-bass? Great. If more than that, all the better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  13. Solrighal

    Solrighal Facebook Friend

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    I've not heard it called that before but I think I know what you mean. For me that's their greatest asset.
     
  14. Solrighal

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    I must admit I'm tempted but I'll wait to hear what other HD 650 owners think when they finally hear them. More -sub-bass would be welcome but I'm happy with them otherwise.
     
  15. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Based on Sennheiser's claimed specs:
    • Sensitivity: About the same as HD600 and HD650 (they claim the HD650 is more sensitive than the HD600, but I think they are about the same).
    • Impedance: 150 ohms, which is half the HD600 and HD650 but 3x more than the HD5x8 and HD5x9. This means different driver. A little easier to drive from a small amp with limited voltage swing than the HD600 and HD650, but not as easy as the HD5x8 and HD5x9.
    • Distortion: Sennheiser's specs on this are bullshit. I got the feeling the HD660s will be better than the HD5x8 and HD5x9, but maybe not as good as the HD650 and HD600 in this regard. But this is just a wild guess based on correlating impedance with distortion with their classic cans.
    • Bass response: I think it will be similar to the HD600 and HD650... and HD5x8 and HD5x9.
    • Mids and treble response: I think it will be similar to the HD600 and HD650... and HD5x8 and HD5x9.
    Price is shit.
     
  16. Ice-man

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    People are reporting that the bass is stronger with the 660. You disagree? Why is the price shit?
     
  17. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    But HD600 and HD650 are very different in the treble.
     
  18. Vorlon

    Vorlon self-important, pompous ass

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    If nothing else, these headphones will go down in history as the first Sennheiser to make balanced (if only pentaconn) cables affordable. They didn´t do the same price hikes they did with the HD 800 S and IE 800 S.

    The prices they charge for separate 4-pin XLR cables for all of their headphones (HD 800 one in particular is a joke) are really something...

    Anyways, I´m going to be a guinea pig* for these. Buying on day 1 - hopefully they are a real upgrade and not just a mobile optimized version.

    *: Sennheiser is the only company I´m willing to do this for. Let´s see if the trust is well placed or not.
     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I don't know if the bass is stronger with the 660 or not. Because Sennheiser does not think I'm special and has not sent me a "sample unit" to test. I can speculate that it is not stronger or significantly stronger just based on the construction: Open headphone with a driver about the same size and with similar sensitivity.

    Price is shit because the MSRP is higher than the 650 and 600, whose price I think it's shit as well. According to the linked sites in this thread the 660S MSRP is 430 euros, while an HD600 is 370 euros.

    All these cans should be at most $100 IMO. At most. But like @Tyll Hertsens said sometime ago (like 5 years ago):

    "The root of the headphone pricing issues lies with Monster and dDre's Beat marketing bullshit driving the prices of headphones up with among wanna-be teensters. Sennheiser (and all headphone makers) are riding a gravy train of unbridled demand, at the moment."

    (read the comments section here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/most-excellent-sennheiser-amperior-and-hd-25-1-ii)

    Now instead of dDre's, it's a bunch of POS ridiculously overpriced cans flooding the market and driving the pricing even higher. Senn wants obviously a piece of the action. And so I speculate that's why we have the HD800S and now HD660S.

    It is worse. Now some cans are incredibly expensive not necessarily because of performance, build, celebrity endorsement, or anything. They are expensive just because they are. It's now a status bullshit thing. One does not even need to pay dDre for it.

    I have heard all kinds of crazy shit on hype trains. Maybe it is different. But based on what I can see and from experience with their HD6x0 and HD5x8 can families, they are likely not that different.

    As background to this I've read claims that the difference between an HD600 and an HD650 is like night an day. Bullshit. They are a little different perhaps, but it's subtle. In fact, even between an HD600 and an HD558 which use different drivers, the main differences are impedance (for driving the cans), and distortion. Tone and house sound remains very similar.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The price should settle downwards over time. HD650 MSRP is also $500. Amazon will do whatever the f**k they want to maintain optimal spot on supply / demand curve and Sennheiser won't be able to do jack.

    I want an Angela Merkel edition of the HD660S.
     

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