Solder and Soldering Irons

Discussion in 'DIY' started by JK47, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Lead-free is a bit harder to work with than conventional solder. I have recently switched to it for prototyping, as I have tested high for lead (30 years of this crap adds up.) For a casual/occasional user, I'd stick to 63/37 leaded solder, as it is the easiest to work with and has very little transition region between molten and solid, and it doesn't have the working problems of lead-free solder.
     
  2. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Since most people here are somewhat sensible folks who value both objective and subjective perspectives on this hobby, I don't think you find many that go this far down the rabbit hole. Sure some tube rolling, and maybe a few will swear by some cables over others, but the sound of solder is reserved for the very "special" few in this hobby. I do remember some stuff from Headfi that was a bewildering read when I was first getting started, but, in the end, I don't think it possible to notice a difference unless, like Armaegis wrote, you screw up your joint.
     
  3. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    If we find you a philosopher's stone (that's what the Manhattan project is right?), maybe you'll be able to lay a golden egg?
     
  4. TomB

    TomB MOT: Beezar

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    Someone else likes to solder as I do. ;)

    Seriously, 63/37 and Hakko - good combination. I remember talking to a friend who tried both the classic Hakko 936 and the popular clone. He said the clone iron would get hot around the grip, making it difficult to hold after using it for an extended period. I've never had that issue with the Hakko. I bought a second one when it was sale for 1/2 price at Frys. Frys was moving the stock when Hakko came out with the new blue and yellow thing. Anyway, that was several years ago. Problem is, my first one is still going so strong that I haven't had a need to even open up the backup.

    I've been through a lot of tips, though.

    That said about Hakko vs clones, Dsavitsk talked me into the Aoyue hot re-work station and after three tries from Amazon, I finally got one that wasn't a collection of broken parts and it actually worked. It's great for the limited use of removing SMD parts. There again, I would bet the Hakko version is a heckuva lot more versatile, but at $799, it's a luxury I can't afford right now.
     
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    888d goes on sale at Fry's for $70 occasionally.

    My hands aren't super steady anymore due to a mild arthritis. I only drag solder SMD these days.
     
  6. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Brand-new, bought/brought from UK in July, been-in-a-flood 18w Antec. Wiped off the mud, it works.

    OK! It would still take a lot of practise for me to become half decent at electrical soldering, but using this is like using a pen to do a crossword, instead of a one-inch marker! I think I spent a lifetime using the wrong tool for the job whenever I tried.
     
  7. Middy

    Middy Acquaintance

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    Hey all, I have been boring Thad E with improving contact connections, cleaners and trying to find out good products and methods on the tweaks forum.

    I am going to add an ESD part for cleaning any internal parts soon. But it does cross over into ESD+ tools.
    Electrostatic Sensitive Devises.
    A better analogy for ESD here is EXPENSIVE SOUND DESTROYING.
    Apologies if this is old hat and patronising.. It's not meant to be...and the electronics guy in my place can't solder for schitt.. Or use good ESD Practice..

    Simplest is you don't use 3 amp fuse wire on an industrial motor. ESD static you feel on you skin in the low 1000 Volts IC's can be damaged in the 100vs or less.
    It's like frying an ant with mains voltage.
    Electronics connections inside Chips IC'S are now in the billions. Think billions of tiny fuse wires that a lightening strike can fry...

    Why mention here? Connecting a cable not an issue. Best practice in Aerospace now is checking for a good earth in the tools you use. My works do daily or even tip change checks for continuity. And temp controls.

    The same for how hot/ long you solder for..
    That little fuse breaks due to heat from too much current. Lead free is great for the environment when you are throwing 100s of tons of lead based electronics into land fill. (Please think of the children and baby kittens..)lead free has a higher melting point. Most good electronics is rated with an upper heat limit. Thermal shock is like throwing a frozen glass bottle into boiling water.
    A trick to easier soldering especially on PCBS is to pre heat the board so it acts as a heat sink. Touch 1 inch of wire with an iron attached!!! Touch the end off 10 feet...

    Heating a board helps the solder flow more you can get it above ambient. A hair dryer would help reduce Soldering contact time..

    The more acidic the flux the greater the oxide is stripped off. There is loads of good solder practice on the net and techniques.
    Up to technical industrial best practice.
    This is your baby so would you let a first year veterinary student operate on your child.... To save money oh yessss....

    Use an ESD wrist strap connected to a ground/ earth... The metal case works but
    ..A. a good place to attach that a crocodile clip won't come off.
    B. The power cable is attched but turned off.
    For safety cut of the live neutral wires in an old cable and remove the fuse . Just have the yellow and green wire attached.
    An electronic lab coat is a cheap Faraday shield.
    Over heating solder gives a bad joint. Over heating electronics kills them when you try and get a good joint..
    I am not doing a soldering class but the temp controlled irons are the way forward.

    Spend a little time reading around the subjects of ESD and Good soldering techniques and Lead/fume /electrical safety. Care for your investment with good practice... But care for yourself first..

    Good luck

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Middy, you'll be glad to hear that I am a well grounded person! It may have taken two thirds of my life, but I got there in the end,

    Actually, yes, I am pretty-well grounded: Most people in this part of the world go barefoot in the house and I do not have a rug or carpet between me and the floor. I still make a point of touching the metal case before digging into stuff like the innards of my computer, because I may be grounded, and it may be grounded ---- but are our grounds the same?

    I make an exception to this bare-foot-electrician stuff, and that is when I am messing around with house wiring or anything at mains voltage, especially as we have 3-phase domestic supplies here. I make sure everything is turned off/isolated at the main and wear shoes with thick rubber soles. OK, one can still get a shock: maybe it will be just a small percentage less.

    When I used to mess around in a lot of computer cases, I used to leave the power cable attached, but power turned off.

    It is a good idea to confirm that the earth connectors in the plugs actually go to earth. That should not be a problem in countries where qualified people do wiring according to strict regulations, but stuff has a habit of not being perfect.

    After quite a while of living in this house I discovered that all the green wires in the wall were not attached to anything at the other end.!

    I learnt that care about electricity has to extend beyond wiring and electrical components themselves. I was fixing some wire mesh to keep rats out of the switch-box cupboard. I wasn't touching anything electrical, all the boxes were closed up, and volts didn't even cross my mind. Until they did, like a massive punch in the head. That's how I discovered that the main meter was faulty, with current leaking to the case. I measured 440v from case to earth. I had touched my head against it. I don't like even small harmless electric shocks, but that one was nasty.

    Probably some ICs feel the same when they get a jolt of static from a finger.
     
  9. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Before i started building a Crack+SB i bought an Ersa RDS-80, other then the stiff cable this thing is really nice. Before i got the Ersa i tried lead free and it was horrible now i could probably do it but still, f**k that shit.
     
  10. Middy

    Middy Acquaintance

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    The nice thing with Aerospace and Military.. I didn't say that btw.... We can still use all the nasty but good use. Most components now do come tinned with lead free.... I am glad I don't have to use it..
     
  11. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    The one being smoked, right? ;)

    I don't do much soldering. I have a container of Multicore Ersin 5-core solder which has lived in one or other of my tool drawers fo I-don't-know-how-long. There is a price label on it: GBP1.50. The current price seems to be over GBP5.00. It might be twenty years old. Maybe even thirty or more.

    It is nicely matured.
     
  12. spotthedog

    spotthedog New

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    Another Hakko FX-888D and Kester 63/37 user here. I might be the odd one out but I really like the S9 tip, but that might be because I've had to solder a lot of SMD stuff. I also keep one of those flux dispensing bottles with replaceable needle tips handy. And of course I use an Optivisor for maximum dorkiness.
     
  13. Impulse

    Impulse Friend

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    So, this might be the epitome of newbie soldering questions but here goes...

    I've always wanted to learn, I figure as a computer engineering student it's about damm time I learn on my own before I have to learn under pressure for an odd class project... And I think I wanna build myself a Torpedo III.

    Looking to get the Hakko FX-888D, but, before I actually start on that T3, is there a cheap project or parts bin I could/should pick up to practice? Any suggestions?
     
  14. Middy

    Middy Acquaintance

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    Scrap electronics is good. Even if the PCBs are broken. Solder wick the copper braid with flux and practice removing fitting parts.
    A tip I have said is preheat the board even with just a hair dryer. Heat the pad and joint.
    Search for a reasonable price temp controlled iron. If you can get a station with a solder sucker great... .. It's an arrow tipped iron with a hole through it to a small vacuum pump...The cheap version is a spring loaded syringe.
    Start on how to solder sites and get a feel for it. It's like anything practice practice practice. Remove all the through hole parts and refit them... rinse and repeat until the pcb is ruined and get some more old electronics and start again....
    Just ask if you are stuck....

    Kind regards

    Dave
     
  15. Impulse

    Impulse Friend

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    Any solder wicking braid recommendations or is it all sorta the same? Looking at MG Chem SuperWick on Amazon, a little pricier than the seemingly more popular Aven but a couple random reviews said it worked better... Seems these things go bad over time with humidity? Is 0.075" / 2mm alright for am amp build or should I go finer/thicker?

    Yes, I'm inching ever closer to actually ordering that Torpedo III... :p
     
  16. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    2mm or 2.5mm should be fine. My thought process for solder wick was as follows: its non-reusable, its cheap (for hobbyist scale), I will only need it in circumstance where I can't use a solder sucker, or need to clean up after the solder sucker. Then I found the cheapest 2-2.5mm variety that was prime eligible, and bought the way-too-much size. I have not bought any since, and don't really think about it anymore.

    I am not necessarily advocating this approach, just saying it shouldn't matter too much, provided it works and you have enough of it to perform the fundamental task. I suppose if you hate solder suckers (some people hate all but the industrial vacuum types, which I can understand but not afford to agree with) then wick specifics might matter more for you.
     
  17. Middy

    Middy Acquaintance

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    The main thing is getting use to the feel of using it. The spring loaded ones do work but normally melt on the tip ... or you don't hold it square so the rubbish vacuum action has nothing to sucker against.

    If you want a tip for not frying SMT caps.
    Always place the wick on the corner of the pad.
    Let out plenty of wick as the plastic melts easy...
    Don't solder on the top. If you are removing a device and throwing it away... just cut the device off.. heat the leg pull out and wick the hole.....

    Practice practice practice...

    Good luck an you tube..
     
  18. ald0s

    ald0s Facebook Friend

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    For anyone in Australia looking for a good iron Mektronics is doing the Metcal PS-900 for $230 shipped which is stupid cheap for this country (50% off)
     
  19. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    I personally didn't like the 888D's clumsy interface for settings; everything else about the iron was great. It's too bad older Hakko stuff does not stay in the market. I got by with a cheaper Hakko Dash for years and I could still use it today just as well as my temperature controlled iron.

    Cheap/useful project ideas?
    -Recap/resto old broken stereo receivers are a good idea but most just need de-oxit
    -Recap an old video game system, like a Super Nintendo

    The Torpedo III is not cheap but I think it's a great starter project?

    Watch out for overheating parts for too long, always keeping your tip cleaned/tinned as well as your joint cleaned and tinned with fresh solder in removal. Do a lot of research on how to and strategies for desolder/remove board components. It's the hardest part and easiest time to lift a pad or trace; recently I lifted a few pads trying to get old caps off my stereo receiver which had cap leads that were bent tight to the pcb. I should have gone with the sucker, then wick, then heat the lead and wiggle but I got too overzealous.

    Get: The Hakko steel wool stuff, 63/37 leaded solder, name brand small and medium chisel tips, flush cutter, flux, multimeter, isopropyl alcohol. I don't know if anyone else uses them but radio shack sells these heatsink clips for solder projects; I like to use them from time to time for insurance.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  20. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    The way I do it that tends to work is to first re-solder the part. Just pretend there's no solder on the part, heat it as usual and apply new solder. Let it cool then apply the (wetted) iron again and remove the part. For caps I usually cut the terminals on the cap side, which makes it easier to remove each pin. Again, let it cool, then wick out the solder in the hole. After it cools, I use a tooth pick to remove the browned rosin leftover if any (be gentle here).
     

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