Solid-State Power Amp Adventures

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by purr1n, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    You will love your Pass Labs IF it a) fits your tastes, b) matches well with your speakers c) live in a cold part of the continent d) have balance xlr from your preamp though its not that great a difference, I think. Maybe 10%.

    Having said that, I'm hopeful that you can post a comparison @msommers , as I am on the fence as well. I was contemplating the Hegels as an anti Pass , but will sit tight till you chime in!

    Oh, @sphinxvc , remember last year when i said I would post on the best sounding set up i've heard using a Pass Labs X150.5? It was the same setup Blue Coral brought down again with XP-10 preamp the Sony ssna5-es as speakers. I thought it still sounded as good as I remembered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  2. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    The descriptions I read of the 30.5 sounds like it has the opposite sound signature of the Hegels. Warm, non-fatiguing & tube like sound.
     
  3. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Based on what I heard last weekend, that sounds about right. The Hegel room at the show was so cringeworthy. Which is not to say that they can't sound good, but when they sound bad, they can make you wish for deafness.
     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I will certainly try to contrast what I can but I'm certainly not as articulate as most users here. I won't be able to listen to it until Monday and the Hegel has left the building (a surprisingly quick sale actually). I run Totem Arros, had Totem Hawks before and likely getting Totem Sky Towers later once available. I've tried a few different brands and each time I really like them at the store but I'm always drawn back to the Totems - maybe it's like your first love, I'm not sure. The Arros, while small, are a very special piece and LOVE a shitload of current. I've spent more on gear before the speakers which might be crazy to some but these scale very well and suit my listening environment. My DAC is a PS Audio DirectStream Jr.

    I didn't find the Hegel + Totem combo bright or fatiguing at all. In fact I was looking at Hegel power amps right away and were unfortunately well beyond my budget. I looked into Class A as the Totem owner, Vince (the last name escapes me) has paired the Arros with Class A Sudgen at shows with excellent results. No used Sudgens were available and honestly I've longed to try Pass Labs for a long time. Mark at Reno had what I considered to be an excellent fit for my system and budget. The XA30.8 is beyond my budget and, on reviews/forums, doesn't sound like what I wanted in my system when the two were compared. I had a Jolida 502 integrated amp that had a beautiful sparkle and lush midrange with the upgraded tubes but a flabby bass with the Hawks. This is when I turned to the Hegel for some grip without getting into hyper detail with no soul. The sparkle isn't quite there but it's still very, very enjoyable.

    I evaluated First Watt options as well but every time I did more research online the Pass just seemed to do everything better, and the current needed didn't sound adequate. Western Canada lacks Pass Labs dealers and so I just went for it.

    Hopefully the 65lb beast stays, I really do.
     
  5. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Ooh, then you will love them. I've loved them with the Totem Model 1 Signatures among other speakers, the only downside being that to sound best you have to have them warmed up. I kept them on standby throughout the weekends, turned them on an hour before serious listening. To this day, with my Aleph 2s I need to have them running seven hours before you get that ease and, oddly, drama as well. And they do respond to power cords, if you believe that sort of thing. I also concur, I like the .5s more than the .8s, but it depends on what you like.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  6. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @Wfojas thanks for sharing your impressions, you're definitely not the first person to enjoy a Pass+Totem combo which makes me ever more anxious for that amp to arrive! What are you running now vs. what you had then?
     
  7. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    This description is fantastic LOL! Fortunately purple hair is in and there's lots of them to choose from ;)

    I don't have those headphones and I'm not sure how I would try it using the amp as there are no headphone jacks...
     
  8. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    They would look something like these
    [​IMG]

    I got one made from headphonelounge in 3 days & for $77.

    It also doesn't have to be the HE-6's, any high tier headphone can be used since the Pass Lab is only 30 watts.
     
  9. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Very cool, had no idea a cable like that existed. Unfortunately I can't be of help for that as I don't have the cable nor the headphones for your request.
     
  10. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I try to have a bunch around for swapping and contrasts. At the time i had those, the Watt puppies, the Jm Reynaud Trente, B&W 804 diamonds(?). Pass labs aleph 2, x150.5, xa100.5, Smc Audio .5s I think. And an arc vsi-60 which i loved most of all with the Totems. Partly because my power bill went down by a fifth or so. Those KT-120 tubes were really something.
     
  11. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Yes I am going to have to try and gauge how much power this sucker takes! I was looking at Audio Research stuff as well, mostly the VT100MKIII but apparently they're quite a pain to replace the tubes. I'd love to bring in my stuff to a local AR dealer but I might cry at the cost of entry. I'm not quite that big of a sucker for punishment!
     
  12. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Not sure why they are hard to replace, you switch tubes, set bias. But i haven't done that model.

    If you see a VSI-60, which is now kind of a reference product (discontinued), see if you can test it. It goes for $2400 used, cheaper than the xa30.5 (I think), and its an integrated, though single ended only.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  13. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Interesting. There is one a few hours away from me. Might be tough explaining why I need two amps to my better half LOL I'll try out the 30.5 for a few weeks and go from there. Thanks for the suggestions!
     
  14. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    "One is good but two is betterer" - someone

    There's a Firstwatt F6 DIY going for 1.3k USD, but I'm not sure how good is it.
     
  15. JeffYoung

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    I've got a hankering to build a FirstWatt myself, but thought I'd give a Bottlehead S.E.X. a go first (as I've already got a 2-channel setup but no separate headphone amp).
     
  16. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    The combo sounded so good, my friend bought it from me for his use. I think he still has it, too. I think there will be an infinite market for both those amps.
    Funny story, that amp came out a while ago (see: https://www.cnet.com/news/high-end-audio-sounds-great-lasts-decades/) and the ARC came out with the VSI-75 in late 2013. TAS first reviews the VSI-60 anyway, and belatedly the VSI-75 a few months later, with the expectation that the 60 was to be discontinued.

    I think it was finally discontinued late last year, the demand never died.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  17. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    The XA30.5 has arrived! Hauling this beast around allowed me to skip gym day!

    I've had the unit playing for about two hours now and I'll highlight the differences thus I've noticed with Pass Labs (PL) vs. the Hegel H360. Some things were really obvious to me at first with the PL: the highs are much more crisp, snappy and yet more articulate. "Keith don't go" has a solo in the middle where the notes are really high up the neck and normally these are almost sibilant however with the PL they just seemed accurate. Andy Mckee is an expert of the acoustic guitar and again natural and accurate presentation is how I would describe the sound - almost exactly like my own Jose Ramirez guitar sounds at home.

    Beck's "Morning Phase" felt like the music was flowing out around me like I've never experienced before. That's not the downplay the H360 but the PL just pushed this feeling that much further. The soundstage is not as wide as the H360 but the PL feels deeper.

    Male voices don't feel like they have the same weight or punch as with the H360. This was quite obvious to me on Gregory Porter's "Holding On" as the song just begins. Less obvious was Mumford and Son's "Broken Crown." Female voices however are as sparkly as I recall with a previous Jolida tube amp and Diana Krall's live performance of "Case of You" is nearly jaw dropping. The same can be said for Adele's live performance of "Make you feel my love" and the Gladiator OST track "Now we are free."

    The other big difference thus far is that the PL felt kind of thin and bass light. At one point I was wondering if I didn't hook things up properly so I played with the EQ in Roon and boosted things to what I remember with the Hegel. Ultimately this lead me to believe that the the Hegel has a bass bump from ~100-250. Why? Because I remember the same "thinness" and lack of slam with my HD800S/Mjo2/Gungnir Multibit setup and later EQing it with Sonarworks. Is it more accurate? Probably. But for me I like a little bit more weight in the bass department and the PL doesn't feel as tight or heavy in contrast to the H360 but rather a little "puffy." However, I do feel the PL extends down further and with my little speakers to notice that is impressive imo.

    I've got the PL to come out of Class A with my Totem Arros at 4ohms 87db specs. SPLs were 85 for Armin Van Buurens' "Drum Song" and 76 for Massive Attack's "Angel" where each bass hit flipped the needle slightly passed 12 o'clock. On the other end of the volume spectrum, I noticed that my speakers present better the above characteristics at lower volumes vs. the Hegel which I truly believe needs very inefficient to work with best as the volume really needed to be above 55 to get the Hegel to play with the same level of clarity, nuance and musicality that the PL can at these lower volumes.

    Albums that aren't recorded or mastered very well don't get my toe-tapping like they used to - Ed Sheran's "Galway Girl" is a great example track. However, it made me then realize that Armin Van Buuren's "Intense" album is recorded/mastered pretty darn well which was unexpected.

    Overall I am happy with this purchase and in most ways, happy to part with the H360. I do miss the "funness" factor of it and the PL's resemblance to the H800S setup I had is pretty uncanny. I suspect a tube preamp will really get this setup to where I want it to be but for a little while I can stop having itchy feet. My DAC is coming out with new firmware next week which some users love and others don't so I'll have a new "toy" to play with as well.

    Best,
    Matt
     
  18. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I think the bass softness is characteristic of the XA architecture for Pass Labs. As you go up higher the ladder, there will be more, but the amount of control will never approach that of a Classe or Krell. The recessed male voices is another indicator that maybe your speakers may need more current, but I am really guessing now.
    Give it a few more hours of warm up, and the liquidity factor may rise up quite a bit.
     
  19. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Well I am very happy now (and a little embarrassed) but I pulled the rookie card and made judgements before I should have.

    I came back tonight after leaving it on stand-by all day, playing background music as we got lunches made bringing temps to ideal. I went back through the same playlist as this morning and I can (very!) happily report that the bass department is feeling MUCH fuller. Not quite Hegel levels which I'm ok with but definitely much better than this morning.

    I guess these amps really are that temperature dependent!

    The high frequency extension is still really blowing me away. It reaches higher and does so without added grain, harshness or sibilants. Overall the sound is as close to tubes as far as I can best recall and now the bass has tightened up quite a bit since this morning.

    The words 'articulate' and 'relaxed' repeatedly come to might listening to this amp. There is a level of layering, a lack of wall o' sound, and microdynamics that is quite apparent. I'm hearing small instruments, in fixed places, where I have never heard before.

    I'm actually quite relieved and honestly, giddy, writing this. I now have absolutely zero desire to move this amp and actually want to take it to the stores and hear it among a bunch of different speakers. Tonight might a long one....
     
  20. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Now watch your power bill go up, correspondingly.:) Leave them on for a few days and listen, should get better by a little more, or a lot.

    After a while, seek out the Vsi, and see if that sounds good to you, its down the same road. Because they are tubes, you definitely don't leave them on all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017

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