The All Purpose Advice Thread

Would you be satisfied with a solution that involves Airplay?

 

I use dt 880,990,770´s(250 ohms) 712 pros´s fidelio x2´s and hd600´s.. playing them now from laptop/geek out 450 or jds c5d.. my uppgrade finger is itching.. im pretty sold on schiit after lurking sbaf.. question is Jot even though i dont need balanced or asgard 2 and some schiit dac? can spend up to 600usd. Planning to buy speakers soon and would like to try the dt 600 ohm versions couse i liked the 250 versions so much .
Any advise would be helpsome

 

In light of current discussion surrounding the Eitr, I would be tempted to configure a Raspberry Pi as a streaming end-point and use the Eitr as the interface to Yggdrasil. The Pi gives you the wireless connectivity you're looking for, and even though you wouldn't be running Tidal on your iPhone/iPad, you could still control the Pi with your device. This could be a nice solution for multiple users too, since anyone on your network could manage the playlist. Of course the Pi requires a little DIY effort, which could be a positive or a negative depending on your inclination.

EDIT: This approach would be more relevant for Yggys with Gen 3 USB, but I think you've said yours already has Gen 5.

 

I picked up Chromecast Audio. It seems to work and Yggdrasil's buy-better-gear light has not shown up. Integration with Tidal isn't 100% but close (I've seen some weird error messages pop up).

I'm willing to experiment. Just dusted off my unused Apple TV, which seems to have optical. My brain is making connections...

Yes, my Yggdrasil has the Gen 5. Hifiberry DIGI+ seems like the way to go.

I really like the idea of Pi-based solution. I can deal with the DIY effort, although I'm sceptical that anything where pacman is involved is "a little effort" Pi seems to be sensibly priced given the actual problem, but since I haven't actually done it and used the end result, I'm anticipating some sort of UI horror anti-climax.

My biggest open question about Pi is Spotify Connect. There's librespot, which seems promising, but haven't had the time to see if it is already in Pi distros.

Interestingly Sonore Microrendu page www.sonore.us/microRendu.html makes the following statement:

• Mode #6 - Spotify Connect Output - This output can be controlled by your computer or tablet running the Spotify application. This application is based on librespot - an open source client library for Spotify. The application is in Beta form.

This seems somewhat risky for a commercial product, given that Spotify wants to evaluate HW partner eligibility, see developer.spotify.com/spotify-connect-hardware-partners

 

I am not sure where to put this question, so in "The All Purpose Advice Thread" it goes.....

Okay, now that I have my 2 channel system up and running, I would like to see what acoustic deficiencies my listening room has and figure out ways to correct any that I find that are significant enough to impact overall sound quality. As I understand things, I am not all that excited about digital room correction. Why? I don't like the idea of the original digital file information being changed before it gets to the DAC. I bought an Yggdrasil specifically because of it's closed form digital filter and how it plays back Red Book content in a 2 channel setup. Using DRC would seem to change all the content in the original file and thus mitigate that strength. I would be more inclined to use a limited number of physical room treatments instead.

First, I need find a way to measure the room. I have been told that the Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement Microphone is a good choice for a microphone. Is that correct? What software works with that microphone AND does an excellent job at showing the acoustic problems with the room?

I am using a late 2016 MacBook Pro running the latest release version of macOS Sierra.

Thanks!

 

Different strokes to different blokes. I like to avoid DSP as all possible, too.
First thing I would do is try different placements for speakers. Simply using ears and various music material. (There are suggestions for general placements in the Nearfield for audiophile listening thread and general speaker advice thread.)
Then in the optimal position try to get rid of early reflections. If possible stuff corners with bass traps <-- that's obviously wishful thinking with females around.
After that, when still not satisfied, I'd get measurement equipment to fine tune.

 

I really loved my DT 880 out of a Hybrid Tube amp, seeing as you have the entire family of Beyer open backs plus the 770's I think you'd enjoying a hybrid tube more than a solid state with the Beyers. I got a chance to hear a K702 which was good with solid state but pretty phenomenal with a Hybrid Tube so I hope the K712 carries the same tonality,

How ever the X2 and HD600 being warmer may... or may not enjoy a tube, I actually liked my HD 600 with an Original Vali, though I've never heard the X2

A good total solution for you I think would be a Schiit Modi Multibit alongside a Garage 1217 Project Ember II, Ember has auto bais for rolling tubes if you want to, even with the stock tube it's impressive enough, that amp will also give you a pre Out stage so you can run it into self powered speakers. Like a JBL LS 305 [or 30X if you can find em] then you have your speakers volume matched individually [as they power them selvs] and you can use the PreAmp function of the Ember II to adjust the volume of both at the same time

From everything I've read the Modi Multibit is a real steal in it's price range, so $250 and $350 [Aluminum Topped Chassis for the Ember II] put's you right at $600

If you do get the Ember I've got some extra 6sn7 tubes your welcome to have, though you'll need the $20 adapter for it. Although, if your handy Head Fi has some pre owned Garage 1217 Project Embers running for around the same price as new [with lot's of extra tubes] so that might be an even better bargain for you

But a Schiit Modi MultiBit and a Hybrid Tube with PreAmp Outputs would serve you best imo

 

Yeah, if you're willing to have Airplay in the chain (which does a transcoding operation from the source to ALAC an possibly downsampling to redbook) then a Mac/Windows box with Rogue Amoeba Airfoil or a Raspberry Pi with one of several media player operating systems into an Eitr might be a pretty good solution. Few people have said good things about Apple optical output, but it's worth a try if you've already got the hardware.

 

I would still like to get a microphone and some software to tell me what is really going on. That way I know better what needs to be done. I don't really trust my own ears at this point. Here is my current setup:



The speakers are 8 feet apart center of woofer to center of woofer. Those boxes in the background are going away as is smoother clutter in that dining room. Behind the photographer is a full wall bookcase with few books. There are some pictures in frame with glass covers and some racing trophies. To the right, is an open space to a hallway and too the left is windows. Right now there are no covering on those windows but that is about to change. Both speakers have nothing behind them except for those skinny decorative wood posts. The left speaker is 3 feet away from the side wall while the right is 4.5 feet from the side wall. The primary listening position is 9 feet from the speakers. The toe in has the speakers aiming a foot or so behind the primary listening position.

I will say that these speakers do not have a small sweet spot for the tweeters.

 

Kinda difficult to see the surroundings of left speaker.
You might want to try switching your equipment rack and right speaker to see if there is change for the better (I'm not familiar with such speakers, whether these benefit from some wall gain or not). And perhaps drag left speaker a bit further away from side wall. 3 feet is not ideal.
How close is back wall to the listening position?
Otherwise looks like room with decent acousitcs. Good size, minimal early reflections, fair amount of height.
Only thing slightly worrisome might be if the speakers are mid way between front and back wall --> severe nulls and peaks, weak bass.

 

One approach is to use a DDC with multiple outputs such as a Breeze Audio DU-U8 and Neutrik NADITBNC-FX to create 2 simultaneous spdif sources to the DACs. Then a passive attenuator between DAC and audio switch, as can be found from Goldpoint and others. Look for passive preamps for example. The Van Alstine Audio ABX box makes this easy but is now out of production. QSC made an ABX box years ago and can occasionally be found on ebay, though it is rare.

 

The room is complicated. The speakers are 10.5 ft from the wall in front of them and 12.5" from the wall behind them. The left speaker has a wall to its left. As you can see in the photo, the right speakers has no wall next to in the room. The hallway wall is just over 8 feet away. Moving the left speaker into the room much more is not practical...at least not for ease of hominid movement.

With acoustic analysis, I should get a better idea of what I need to do versus playing "pin the tail on the donkey" blindfolded.

 

This is tough. It looks like you have some great equipment in a far from ideal room. The speakers are likely close enough to the middle of the room that you will have issues with nulls and peaks as Priidik mentioned above. Having the windows (a hard reflective surface) so close to the left speaker when there is so much space available to the right of the right speaker is far from ideal. Whatever the acoustic analysis might show you it is very reasonable to assume that your right speaker will measure very differently from the left one from your main listening position.

Edited to add... did you ever consider placing the speakers in front of the book case and moving the seating where the speakers are now? This might get you in a better set up with respect to the 38% rule? (though you'd still have the reflections on the left side to worry about)

 

People, me included, seem to often use REW (https://www.roomeqwizard.com/), as it is freely available and a solid program for doing measurements.

The Dayton is an analog mic as far as I understand, so you would need to calibrate for the analog sound input of your Mac. I decided to sidestep this and also take advantage of pretty good application notes and integration with REW by using a USB mic from MiniDSP (https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1). The application notes helped a novice like me to get started. The mic seems to be reliable based on my experience, at least mine still produces accurate enough measurements after a couple of years. An audio professional checked it against his pro equipment recently.

To avoid calibrating for your Mac analogue output, similarly using a USB (or optical out) to a DAC can be a simplification. And you need to check that all the sound processing (e.g. equalizer) in the Mac is turned off.

Not sure what you aim for with being able to showing the acoustic problems, but REW like other measurement programs relies on you being able to interpret the measurement results, e.g. what is causing the undesired peaks and valleys in the frequency response, early peaks in impulse response, too slow or fast decay time in waterfall diagrams, etc.. When I was starting my home theater project, I looked for something more advanced like "room response simulation/measurement/room design and acoustics optimization for dummies", but did not find something significantly more powerful than the REW in-built simulation for a hobbyist. The current SW I found was meant for professional room design with integration to CAD and seemed way too complex to casually learn.

There is a concise thread on "Acoustic Treatment / Soundproofing" here. I put some links there I found useful for learning the basics of room acoustics.

My goal in setting up my home theater was also to avoid digital room correction for 2.1 channel listening and use speaker/listener positioning and acoustic treatment instead. Be aware that if you set the target response quality bar very high, this may become pretty complex or even impossible for the lower frequencies with treatment that makes sense in a living room. The response will always be a compromise, unless you are building a dedicated studio or home theater room. And even then you may not get a perfect response, unless you start from building the walls and floor and ceiling the right way.

Some rules of thumbs you may wish to consider off the top of my head, without thinking if these are realistic in your room, roughly in priority order:
- symmetry is key 1) with respect to positioning of the speakers and listening position in the room and 2) with respect to materials of the closest boundaries (walls, floors, ...). To ensure coherent soundstage and response overall.
- listening position at ~38% of room length from the front wall, or maybe 38% away from the back wall. If that is not possible, avoid integer multiples (not sure of the correct word) in any room dimension for speaker or listening position (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ... of length/width/height). To avoid nulls/peaks of standing waves.
- distance from wall behind the speakers either at least one meter away or as close to the wall as possible for the speaker to function (bass ports, heat). To avoid multiple peaks and valleys from the reflections from behind the speaker.
- distance from side walls, floor and the ceiling at least one meter. To avoid reflections.
- wall behind the listening position should be as far away as possible, preferably 3 meters or more. To avoid reflections that distort the response.
- first reflection points on the sidewalls, ceiling, behind the speakers, floors treated with absorbing materials like acoustic panels. Possibly also the boundary behind the listening position if very close. To avoid reflections that distort the response. You can find the reflection points with a mirror. Again, there are some acoustic panels that blend in, look like painting or reliefs and as such are appropriate for a living room. And again, the lower the frequencies you wish to absorb, the thicker they become.
- as mentioned in earlier post, bass traps at the corners of the rooms might help with taming the low frequencies (standing waves). There are some that aim at being easy for the eye, but the lower the frequencies you wish to impact, the larger they become. Really, really huge for below 100Hz.


One last thing: a flat frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz may not be the right target. Many people prefer a gently down-sloping frequency, maybe 4-6db from 100Hz (or maybe 200Hz) to 20kHz. I learned about this "B&K curve" here and it does sound better to me compared to the flat response.

Edit: changed treating first reflection points to be higher in priority than bass traps.

Second edit: corrected a brain fart

 

Since your Yggdrasil already has Gen 5, you may be ok using USB directly out of a Raspberry Pi, skipping a Digi+ Pro or equivalent SPDIF interface altogether. As more Gen 5 DACs make it into the wild, we will learn more about the wisdom of this approach.

As for the DIY aspect, if you decide to go this route, take a look at @Kattefjaes' great guide available here. I have not yet undertaken this project myself, but the guide is well written and makes the whole project seem more tractable. For what it's worth, the guide mentions that Linn Kazoo is a solid iOS app for controlling Tidal playback on the Pi. If you're curious about the UI, you can check out a YouTube demo here. I am not sure if Kazoo supports Spotify though.

 

Thx alot for the advice!
Been youtubing the hell out of that amp and i´m pretty much sold. Forgot to mention i live in Sweden and import tax from the Us is crazy..
Will start with the modi multibit and strike if i can get that amp used.. Got an x-canv2 amp in the mail today as part of a bundle so will play with that for a while

 

+1 for REW. Theory and practice is well documented in the help, it's easy to use, and its author @JohnM is a member here.

Dayton does do a USB mic too (UMM-6); and a smartphone version (iMM-6) which can be calibrated for SPL with an app: http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone.html . All their '6' products I think use the same capsule, and have individual FR calibration files.

 

Email Jeremy I believe he has a friend who helps with the design based in Europe so you should be able to get one without importing from the states

 

What portable amp would be a good "experience" to try while my GOV2+ is being fixed by LH Labs? Is there another amp that would work well and be close technically but just present things a bit differently? Up to $300 used is my budget. Streaming Tidal from iOS device to CA Vega.