The Mike Moffat (#2 at Schiit) Blog

Discussion in 'Schiit' started by baldr, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    As much as I like seeing that vein pop out in Mike's forehead. I'm more inclined to think its involving an operating system, and more importantly something that requires constant updating. That the thing I've heard both Jason and Mike say they would never do most.

    That could be a DAP, or music server, or streamer, or...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  2. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    ... first multibit smartphone!
     
  3. baldr

    baldr Schiit-sterer

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    Back about 40 years ago, I was at CES in Chicago. I was a young and starstruck sitting at the bar in the Blackstone Hotel next to Peter Walker and across from Sol Marantz. I was a totally satisfied Quad ESL user and a twenty-something sitting next to their creator. We had a brief conversation where he described his design philosophy – a loudspeaker’s (never a “speaker”) purpose was to recreate an acoustical experience. One of the points that remain today, in a live classical or jazz concert, the sound is not that loud, as normal speech is disruptive. Also, there is never complete silence, as there is always a murmur of whispers, butts shifting in seats (audience and musicians) and a blend of minor sounds emanating from the background. What I took from that is there is never complete silence or blackness in the background. The best recordings will even have the “sound” (or shape) of the acoustic environment audible as soon as the recording switches on before the music begins. (Some examples of this are the first Cowboy Junkies album, the first Hot Tuna Album, and too many Jazz and Classical albums to mention.) In other words, the re-created music never comes out of nothing; it comes out of a much smaller something. Even studio mixed recordings which placed instruments and voices in a panorama had their own little sub-environments. Using speakers less resolute than the Quad ESLs of the day made this phenomenon more difficult to perceive.

    When digital first came out in 1983 it sounded like ass, not just because it was harsh; it came out of nothing which is very unnatural; startling, in fact. Peter Walker’s advice came to fruition years later when I was quality checking the megacombo burrito filter. Re-created music had to come out of something. Further, this something, when listened to, had to contain the recreation of minor events, from air coming out of heater vents to traffic in the street to ice rattling in moving glasses to pages of scores turning, etc. This sort of resolution is best perceived with the highest quality amplifiers and transducers.

    This may not be true for electronic music, which really comes out of nothingness, or any synthesized music at all. In other words YMMV according to your music library.

    There is also “digital haze” which exists in all digital equipment. In fact the A2 Yggdrasil has less of it than the A1. Too often, this haze is confused with the “much smaller something” on systems/transducers of lesser resolution.

    So what am I saying here, beyond a deference to the inventor of the first practical electrostatic speaker? If it comes outta nothing, it is wrong, really f'ing chickens wrong, unless it is a reproduction of created (synthetic) rather than re-created acoustical events. Pretty simple. I favor the re-created.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  4. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I peed a little reading that.
     
  5. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Recently I made a comment that the only time I expected to hear a "black background" was when nothing was playing.
    And I ALWAYS wanted to be able to hear the background 'noise', because there is ALWAYS some sort of 'noise' and if I don't hear it, then that means I'm not hearing ALL of the music.

    Just my 2¢

    JJ
     
  6. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

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    Maybe Mike intends to add chip heaters to the Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit to create the missing ambience in the form of fan noise.

    An extension of the Gadget's philosophy of enhancement of experience.

    Wait. Have I just added "fan noise" to this thread by my comment. Hmm... .
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  7. Ruby Rod

    Ruby Rod Facebook Friend

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    AFAIK, it's well established that adding or subtracting noise changes one's perception of a musical signal, even if the signal itself is completely unaffected. Removing noise from even limited range older material can kill it. Something I've wondered about is the difference in "signal floor" (is that a thing?) between digital and LP. With an LP there's still signal buried way below the noise, just masked. With digital, is that still the case? In a lab setting one can use things like lock-in amplifiers to pull signals out of noise that would otherwise be undetectable. With a good carrier, signals 100 dB below noise can be recovered. If the signal were Redbook processed first, would that still be the case?
     
  8. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Euh, getting into what I've always halfway considered black magic territory, what with shaped noise being used to increase dynamic range.

    When you remove that noise you're doing so much more than just removing noise, you're mathematically sucking the dynamics out.
     
  9. winders

    winders boomer

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    @baldr

    So wait. You are saying that when CDs came out they sounded like "ass" because their was no noise from the medium you were playing? Since all the sources back then the were the master tapes, the CD could only be as quiet as the master tape. Right? That means you are saying that playing from tape or vinyl sounded better because of the inherent background noise of the mediums. So, for CDs to sound better, you need to add artificial noise to make it sound more like live music with the associated sounds?
     
  10. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    No, just....no.
     
  11. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    So has the NDA lifted yet? Come on, I need some schiity news!!
     
  12. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    first sounds like ass is relative lol..if you didn't know any better and the height of your audiophilia up to that point was an outback walkman, remember that thing? probably not lol, and a pair of koss headphones from sears digital sounded pretty darn good.

    It wouldn't be the CDs that sounded bad, it was whatever that was a playing them made then sound bad.
     
  13. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I think that was in reference to digitally made music. For example a synthesised instrument or sound effect won’t pick up any ambient noise. Because there is no room, live electronics, or people to make noises or for the instrument to interact with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  14. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I don't think he is saying that at all.

    CD's fist sounded like "ass" because first generation D/A and A/D chips were not that great. Grainy. Grating. Harsh.

    The noise he is referring to is a different thing. 16-bit audio does have a much higher SNR, but that is not the only spec to consider. For digital audio to sound good, yes, they did have to add noise. It is called noise shaping.

    I truly think when people say something has a "black background", it really means it is higher resolution. The sound is more in focus and they can pinpoint detail with greater ease as if there is less background noise.
     
  15. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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  16. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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  17. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I want it. So bad. $499 is just out of the price range I was looking for :(
     
  18. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    moist

    699 if you want the MB dac....
     
  19. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

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    I’m not sure if this is the same thing, I’ve never liked the feeling I get when listening to the soundless dead emptiness of a very well sound dampened recording room (or any anechoic chamber). Its worse if I stand by the open doorway, one ear facing into regular room the other into the anechoic chamber. No matter how quiet everything is, the anechoic chamber just sounds absolutely dead to one ear, while the other ear can hear the “sound of quietness” in the regular room, and this can give me a slight vertigo. It’s so hard to explain. Of course once someone/something makes a noise in the anechoic chamber the strangeness goes away.

    Note, the sound of quietness to me is very different than recording noise or amplifier noise.

    @baldr It’s great to hear that you and your wife are both better now. Nothing is more important than health.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  20. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    @baldr . Thanks for checking in. Glad to hear you and your wife are getting better. Hope all goes smoothly with that other fun thing. If only humans where more modular.

    Your description of early CD reproduction was spot on. My first reaction in 1985 was “what the f**k is wrong with this?” :eek:
    And then my friend told me he paid $1000 for the player. I almost passed out.
     

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