Tidal sounds not as good..... as Redbook FLAC rips

Go into Settings/Streaming, scroll down to the sound devices. Hover over the one you're using, and you'll see a cog at the right hand end. Click it, and enable "Use Exclusive Mode" and "Force Volume", but not "Passthrough MQA".

 

@Kattefjaes
Your awesome. Didn't see that little settings icon. Way cooool.

I'm with you on the fact that Tidal is hit of miss with some of the recordings. I just listened to the Fleetwood Mac Master recording and it was great. The Tidal player is going to get another go-over with me with the new settings. I'm thinking about getting a CD transport (Tascam CD-200). It's only $209 and I have $150 worth to return to that company. What the hell. I went and read the Mike Moffet blog. It made me think..... do it. I have been buying CDs. Would offer me another listen alternative and would give me coax and I would keep my tablet too. I looked into that Singex thing, but I think for almost the same price, it would be cool to have a CD player. Thanks for all your help.

 

I was also previously unable to find some of the settings that people had mentioned so thanks, @Kattefjaes
Only problem now is that when I have it set to Exclusive Mode I cannot use Foobar2000 while Tidal is open so I don't know if I'm going to stick with that.

 

Exclusive mode, by definition, means that only one application can address the DAC. Some applications are better behaved than others, and will release the device if they're not actively playing something - other's just grab it and hold onto to it. But if you're not using Exclusive mode, then you're talking to your DAC via the entire OS audio stack, which includes the mixer and digital volume control. This becomes a quality (use Exclusive mode) vs. hassle (start/quit apps) trade-off.

 

I did a short test comparing Tidal vs the CD ripped with EAC. As my Gungnir is currently being upgraded to multibit I'm limited to my GO450, so take with a grain of salt. Chain was GO450 - Ragnarok - HD800/DIY OB speakers. I used Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over. Tidal says its version of Hell Freezes over is from 2009, but it seems to be identical to the 1994 CD.
Here's what I found:

1. EAC ripped file played back by foobar2000 v1.3.8, using WASAPI (Push), 50ms buffering:
   This was my preferred mode. I'm sure there's better sounding software, but at a certain point I tend not to care. This had a marginally more precise and less mushy sound than Tidal using exclusive mode. Maybe a certain foobar version would elevate this to another level.
   
   
2. Tidal loopback recording played back by foobar 2000 (same settings):
   I know of two ways to record a file in Tidal. One is limited to 15 bits of resolution and the other clips the output a bit below 0dbfs, just like Windows 10 did. There's no difference between the 16 bit file when there's no clipping, but when there is clipping you get nasty artifacts (essentially it clips it even more). With the 15 bit file you get a slightly higher noise floor, which is audible - especially around the 10 seconds mark. Still, I think I preferred the 15 bit file over the Tidal playback. The higher noise floor results in a less clear cut sound with more muted transients, too.
   
   
3. Tidal
   Maybe slightly less clear and three dimensional. Slightly less involving. This was more obvious with the HD800, as it's more resolving than the speakers. I think Tidal is equivalent to one of the "bit-perfect" playback options in foobar, but I don't know which one. Call me crazy, but for some reason I prefer the WASAPI (Push) with 50ms buffering over all the other options.

All in all slight differences that I'm not confident I could blind test (except the 15 bit vs 16 bit which I did successfully blind test). It's hard to blind-test software. Cables make a much bigger difference. I absolutely hate the sound of SPC cables and the insulation seems to make a big difference.

 

Your HD800 does reveal what I'm basically was hearing. Less clear and 3 dimensional is your take. Yes, that is a good explanation.

You are going to freak the F$%*K out with your Gungnir Multibit when you get it back with Multi-Bit. I cannot believe the sound from my Modi Multibit Multi-Bit. Gungnir Multibit is supposed to be way better. Congrats.

Thanks for the testing. Some here think I should shut up. I think. I'm just trying to get my sheet sounding good, so I can relax and enjoy the music (and enjoy some cocktails).

 

@Kattefjaes
I'm watching CNN this morning and saw that profile pic of a girl you had up yesterday. I almost shit myself.

 

I don't think anyone wants you to shut up, my friend! Perfectly rational conversation in this thread.

 

Interesting thread.

 

I highly recommend the Tascam CD200 as a transport. Nothing new can touch it at its price point. The Cambridge CXC sounded a tad better but not enough to justify the price hike. However, I might spring for the Tascam CD 240 which can work as a digital transport with flash sticks via its rear USB port and iPhone app.

 

@TheIceman93
I looked at the other models from Tascam, but I didn't see anything that I would use. I had a couple of people tell me of problems that they had with Cambridge Audio stuff. I originally was thinking of that unit. I just like the fact the Tascam has the price down with the CD-200. I think they used to be very expensive with their equipment. Very surprised of the low price.

I'm sitll blown away from that Fleetwood Mac Rumors Master recording. I have wanted to hear that for a while. I heard things that I didn't know were there, that's for sure.

 

What's nice about the Tascam CD-200 (as well as the CD-RW900 series) is that it's a "buffer-to-RAM, clock-out-from-buffer-to-S/PDIF design". This means the focus of the transport can be low electrical noise rather than rotational stability (it's not dependent on servo data for clocking). This helps with cost enormously.

 

I absolutely love my CD200 ... if it suits your needs, there is no downside to purchasing it. The the disc drive is made by Teac and is used in many "audiophile" CD players costing 4x as much. Some say the Teac drive the best mass produced drive on the market at the moment.

 

I missed this thread and I started a new one http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/a-tidal-surprise.4243/#post-132726.
why I choosd Tidal over spotify.

 

Roon sounds amazing, pricing isn't bad either, and maybe I'm beating the dead horse, but I've always enjoyed streaming purely for discovery. An, I've often found that the lack of mastering options among other things, is part of why streaming isn't ideal. In fact, I've never heard a stream that sounded as good as a properly sourced rip.

 

Tidal does not sound as good as CD. Mastering obviously has something to do with this. But even if I were to take an identical recording on CD. It sounds less defined. I have tested using Audirvana which manages Tidal within the app. My CD rips are on aiff through a MacBook also played through the same app. The difference is not even subtle in my system. Which, is more revealing than any headphone setup I have had, including Sennheiser HD800 setup with HDVA 600. My speaker setup is below for reference. I am not mocking Tidal. I am a happy user. It's very useful and convenient. But this fact has to be mentioned.

MacBook Pro 2015 SSD. USB to Wyred4sound Recovery, USB to Berkeley Audio Alpha USB, BNC cable to Schiit Gungnir Multibit, Naim NAC 252 preamplifier, Naim NAP 250.2 power amplifier, Naim NAC A5 speaker cable to Harbeth Monitor 30.1 speakers. All running through a filter free mains Hifi inTouch distribution block.

 

Unless you are privy to some information that TIDAL isn't sharing directly, then you have no way to be sure that the master used by TIDAL and your CD/rip is actually the same. At which point, you don't have a basis for an absolute comparison that backs up the statement:

"Tidal does not sound as good as CD."​

At most you can say "the versions of tracks/music I find in TIDAL don't sound as good as the versions I have ripped on CD", which is not nearly the same as what you're making blanket statements about.

 

Is there a way to stream/record music from Tidal and then compare the files in a program such as MusicScope?

 

Well of the many tracks that I have compared I have had the same result. So yes to me Tidal sound quality is not as good as CD.

Like I said before I value Tidal. Firstly it's much better value than buying CDs. But I will make that statement because that is my experience.

 

I first hooked up with Tidal when it launched, pushing it through Airplay (the only connection I had at the time) from an early iPad. The connection was iffy and the fidelity was, frankly, terrible. I cancelled,

Tried again a year later. Same results. I cancelled again.

Now, with Roon, running it directly through my Mac Mini, the connection is solid and the SQ is much improved. On the better recordings, the fidelity is almost -- almost -- up to snuff. Entirely listenable for the most part. And for 20 bucks a month, a save a lot of $$ by not buying discs I have only a glancing interest in hearing.

I, for one, am keeping it until and unless something "better" comes along.