USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

You really do not need a word clock for listening to music. Running a studio, maybe- but listening to music, not so much. It won't gain you anything, and sometimes can actually make matters worse.

 

He winders, so allow me to reply, and if I am incorrect, then I will have learned something too.

I'm an Engineer, so my starting point starts there.

In analog to digital conversion, a clock of some sort is used. At each beat of that clock a sample is taken, at least in PCM. That clock is not actually recorded, it's just a timer, like a metronome, but the clock is not recorded. All that is recorded is the samples at each tick of the clock.


So here is the key point...

Transferring data at speeds far above the 24/96, or even 24/192 is trivial easy these days. Modern transfer mechanisms, that is a small amount of data as compared with what is possible. What is not transferred is the recording clock, and there is no good way to send the original clock to the receiver over serial but to interleave it with the samples, or infer it.

Even the shorter version - if the digital to analog processor knows the clock rate used by the recorder (at analog to digital conversion time), there is no need send that data at that rate. The data can be sent at any rate, easily, so long as the digital to analog converter knows the original clock, the recorders clock can be matched, the data sent at any rate, so long as it is fast enough that it doesn't fall behind.

Regards,
D

 

By the way note I mentioned, my comment was about pulling, from pre-recorded (aka already analog to digitally converted data, e.g., CDs, music files, etc.). For recording real time input such as a mic, that's a real-time playback problem, or a real-time Analog to Digital problem, but for recordings? That is something recorded in the past. We just need to know the sample rate, sample size, and pull it fast enough to Digitally to Analog convert at the original clock rate. Inferring based on a bit/byte/word/longword stream rate, sigh.

 

... and slow enough that it doesn't get too far ahead and overflow the DAC's input buffer.

This is what "asynchronous" USB transfer adds: every so often the host asks the DAC how many frames were in the last sample period, and it uses that number to determine if additional frames need to be added to the packets in the next sample period.

The "clock" between the host and the DAC for USB transfers happens to run at 44.1KHz so it's easiest to figure out how much to speed up / slow down, but in an audiophile DAC that 44.1KHz has nothing to do with the 44.1KHz driving the actual data conversion.

 

That is why the DAC should pull, and know the clock rate, vs shoving data at the DAC, leaving it up the DAC to keep up and infer the clock and avoid buffer overflow. The recordings I am listening too are not real time recordings, they are recordings from months, years, decades ago. Shoving it in the DACs face in real time like this info is happening now and must keep up now, that is the flaw It doesn't need to be pushed at the DAC like it is happening now and KEEP up DAC like real-time events.

I just want my DAC to playback that old recorded data at the original clock rate, it's not a recorder or amplifier of real time events

 

What is it about this thread that it attracts people who declare "I AM ENGINEER" and then proceed to explain why everyone, including the AES, are stupid, and they know better?

It's not how AES/EBU works. It's not how AES67 works. It's not how NMOS works. For a reason.

 

Things can make sense at a certain time and place, but then new insights are possible too. Another way to say it is that if it was all right the first time around, we might still be listening to AM radio. It wasn't stupid, but it made sense then.

Actually I believe I missed something, and thanks to jeffYoung I have some reading to do. Live and learn

 

WASAPI Event

 

Worse yet we might viewing videos via composite video, or NTSC video; all of which made sense when it was invented. Definitely NOT stupid, but if nobody asked, their would be no S-VIDEO, let alone digital video... anyway off to do some reading. Thanks for the insights.

 

I've taken to a default behavior of mentally adding the phrase "for the Albanian State Washing Machine Co." to the end of claims of "I am an engineer" when I read forums (audio ones especially). At least until the person in question posts something that elevates the claim to something believable.

Conflating the NTSC format with the S-Video interface is a good example of non-engineering understanding (or at least failing to understand subject-relevant engineering).

 

Okay, after 64 pages of "crap" I'm sold on getting the USB from in front of my DAC. From what I have gleaned here, and hints subtle and not, about what may be coming shortly, I shall wait, but have made the decision. From what I have read, it is the most bang for the buck considering the components I already have. The PCI solution might be the best, as of now, but that too could change depending on what might be coming.

FYI: PC Foobar/Tidal SU1- I2S- KTE3- ICAN Pro/LD MK VI+/WA7- HD600-650-800 and Elear

 

Given your current configuration, why do you think the USB link between the PC and the SU-1 is doing much harm? I can understand why you might prefer to use a good PCI solution instead -- getting rid of SU-1 and USB cable -- but it's not so clear this would improve quality that much.

 

Check out first page of 64 you just read, first post of thread. (I've quoted it below to save time, thank me later).
I don't see "9. Keep group informed of completed read".

Also check out @Torq ranking of AOP/NAI and AES converters. I've inserted the quote further down.

 

Someone has a AES16 PCI here with the cable for a reasonable price. I'm tempted myself but not sure what I'd do with it right away.

I'd say buy that. Worst case you sell it at no loss because you didn't notice a difference...

 

Thank you for your candor... it's hard to find the wheat through the chaff at times. Let me try to qualify... There are several reasons, the first of which is that my diversity in amps/transports, especially those with XMOS drivers, create f'ing havoc when switching between devices. With my USB chain, especially, when the mids and highs are busy, it hits my ears like, and be patient, my audiophile vocab is not there... Everything I want to hear is there, but seems... , the mids and highs have a fkn irritating shine/or lack of separation, like I have to try and hear what's going on instead of just listening, esp when they are fast and busy. There is a blurriness, or crowdedness?? (if that is a word) I cannot describe it better.

I thank you for asking the questions, and am sorry I cannot answer equally eloquently, but I assure you, I didn't find an issue because of some neurosis, I didn't/don't have the words, but I am hearing something that may be best described....... fk that, I don't know how to best describe it..., but my sense/feel, is something like a lack of definition, no that's not right, lack of separation??? with regard to freq between the mids and highs... like a blur or lack of detail there, but not that either... oh hell, I give up, it's something that doesn't quit penetrate a level of consciousness, or at least a level at which I can put into words, but it makes me want to rip off the headphones! It reminds me of the static/white noise? we used to get when our local channels when off the air? Don't get me wrong the chain is great, but this stuff is under there somewhere, lurking, chiding, I hear, or more feel it there and it resolves into and eye-squint, head-tilt or shake, something! I cannot put my finger on, but is there and not desirable.

That's the best I can do to describe it, Is it USB??? FK I dunno that either, other than I have a friend, who has a chain much like mine, minus USB and I did not hear this level of RASH/BLUR...?? Sorry guys, I'm still learning, guess we all are, but there is something very, "uncomfortable" there , just under the surface, feels almost subconscious.

This is the most honest, I have ever been on a forum, it may have to do with the Irish Whiskey, but it is as good as I can make it and what's more important,completely honest.

Again, I appreciate all your input, otherwise I wouldn't be here, if I want a reach-around, there are many other forums.

EDIT: It occurs to me that I/We, would maybe be better served, by shutting the f**k up and enjoying what we have rather than spending money we don't, on shit we can't afford, for stuff we may hear?



Respect,

Trin

 

@Trinity go for the AES card, it pretty much improves in the areas you just described in your last post. The "hash" you described (and you did a pretty good job of describing it as I know what you're talking about) is very much a symptom of having USB in the chain and it is irrelevant how much you re-clock it, what you convert it to, how many times you convert it, etc.

I had a friend who owned a SU-1 for his Yggdrasil and he was pretty skeptical the PCI card could make a difference but I convinced him to snipe a cheap one off eBay and he was pleasantly surprised. I'd ask him to share his experience here but he doesn't post much on forums these days.

Here's an excerpt from when I got the Gungnir and I compared the USB input to SPDIF in from a PCI card:

As for all the people saying wait for the rumored Schiit DDC, if it actually is an affordable USB converter that's great, it will likely be better than the Chi-fi shit on the market now but still worse than moving away from USB entirely.

 

@k4rstar

Thanks for your input and I already read your quote and it was, in part, what has me headed in this direction. I love the passion here, hell, even like the 2 assholes who dislike me for wanting a better chain. lmao. Well not really, but I would have liked their dislikes had they had the balls to qualify them.

I am looking for just such a card, but it would have to be a very good deal as I am a bit thin after recent purchases. Also, some of the hints have been dropped by persons, opinions, I have come to respect, so that has my curiosity flowing.

Thanks again k

EDIT: I recant as @Changling did qualify his dislike and I respect that. I will reply when the whiskey blur has receded. Ah, fkit, I'll give it a go now. You have valid points and you may be right, but until I try, or hear I won't know. Isn't that a cool thing about audio? I can make some moves, in this case at very little cost and then decide after that. There are not many options here to go audition, and I won't go to Chicago, so I will go trial and error, sell and buy, until I'm content or die, whichever comes first.

Thanks for caring enough to post your thoughts

Trin

 

I gave you 2 references to 2 very well respected members input on exactly your "problem". I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.

 

Please see my edited post above where I recanted because I didn't realize you did post. I apologized both there and via pm.