Video Projectors

Since getting the go ahead from my girlfriend to turn our future living room into a Hollywood-themed home theater, I have been considering a projector instead of an LCD TV. I have read quite a few internet resources and am pretty well versed in the pros and cons, but I trust this community over others so I was hoping folks would share their experiences/lessons/advice.

A few specifics:
Budget: $1500 (including screen)
Space: 11x13 room with about room for a 100inch screen
Light: Large windows, but light blocking curtains are planned
Alternate: 65 inch LCD TV
Preferences: I really like deep blacks. I know neither LCD or projectors might get to my preferred levels at my budget, but I prioritize good contrast over absolute resolution. As a secondary consideration, I do plan to videogame on this system. Not hardcore PC, but console and old school emulation. Not sure if lag or refresh or whatever might play into it.

 

For whatever it's worth, I've been very pleased with a projector-based system. I mainly watch movies, but also play video games on mine and have experienced no lag or other detrimental effect. Rather than a fixed wall mounted screen, I enjoy the pull-down screens as they easily go away when not in use. I'd rather not have a big-ass screen taking up my room while I'm not using it. I'm not sure if I can speak to how black the blackest of blacks would be in terms of what contrast ratio would be acceptable to you, is there somewhere near you that you can go to audition a projector-based system to see if the current technology fits your requirements?

I'm all about a projector. Huge HD movies or video games when you want it, and a normal-looking living area when you don't.

 

I've had an epson 8350 projector based home theatre in my house's master bedroom with blackout curtains and an elitescreens 92" fixed frame screen for 5+ years now.. it's definitely cool but with how cheap 70-80" tvs are now.. I'd probably go with a tv now over an entry level projector setup. The image quality seems better on current tvs and it's just lower annoyance and maintenance.. especially for a room where you'll do viewing during the day like a living room. Also if getting new speakers, go with horns or high efficiency 93db+ type stuff.. just sounds more cinematic to have explosive dynamics

 

I'll add a few comments also, as this is what I do (review HT gear).

You're never going to get good contrast with a low end PJ, at least not in comparison to a TV. If you really want good contrast, try to buy a 1080p OLED - the LG's from a couple years ago are now quite affordable when you can find them. Failing that, Vizio's 2016 M series are the next best option at your budget.

If you can accept deep gray instead of perfect black, there are a few solid entry level PJ's that are worth considering:

1) Like @sphinxvc said, the Epson 5040UB is great, but it's outside your price range. The Epson 3100 is the undisputed contrast king within your budget: http://amzn.to/2qQohe4 at $1150, you have a couple hundred for a screen, allowing you to get a 100" up to a 120" in your budget: http://amzn.to/2qPTz52
2) If you care more about brightness than black levels, BenQ's HT series are razor sharp DLP projectors that support 3D, but you lose blacks: http://amzn.to/2qQet3J
3) If considering a TV, your budget limits you severely, but your best bet by a mile is Vizio's M series from last year as they have FALD (Full Array Local Dimming): http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-70"-class-(69.5"-diag.)-led-2160p-chromecast-built-in-4k-ultra-hd-home-theater-display-with-high-dynamic-range-black/4859500.p?id=&skuId=4859500 you can get the 65" in your buget, or stretch slightly to the 70".

Feel free to ask any questions.

 

Great stuff guys - thanks. The models of projectors and TV's that I had been looked up line up with what has been recommended, so at least I am looking at the right things. I do have an old but still decent 37" HDTV I can use for casual use (and not dominate the living room space) in conjunction with a roll up screen. Using some online calculators, my wall to wall viewing space might be too small for anything larger than an 84"ish screen if I don't want to see pixels. With that in mind and the prices of 70" Vizio M series coming down to within range, I might compromise and roll with that. I will add blocking and outlets for either option before I close up my living room walls and see what prices are at the end of the summer.

 

Funny enough, according to my architect girlfriend, black walls (just as an accent wall) are in now, so I could actually get away with a darker space to help out with reflections. And weirdly enough, she doesn't mind big ugly theater looking stuff like the new Emotiva's as long as they are within context of a home theater. If no big ass screen, no big ass speakers.

 

What do you guys consider the ultimate viewing experience? Movie theaters? For awhile I considered movies in IMAX format as good as it gets. But lately Ive seen these newer OLED and quantum dot displays that look amazing, at least in terms of color. Much better then what Ive seen a projector do.

 

Projection wise, Dolby Cinema and the Sony/JVC laser based projectors are the best right now, as they have great contrast. They don't quite mach OLED, but it's a fantastic experience in a dark room.

 

Why aren't there OLED computer monitors yet?

 

Burn in, it can be easily mitigated on a tv, but with a computer monitor not so much...Dell had announced one and then unannounced it.

 

Sorry for the very long post but I want to touch on your last comment and feel some context is necessary. My short response would be to ask you whether you've seen a projector run in near ideal conditions? The long winded (but hopefully helpful response follows)....

I consider my multi purpose man-cave to be the ultimate viewing experience for me. No line-ups, cheap snacks & drinks, very comfortable seating, I can pause (or choose to binge watch) at any time, with sound and picture that is WAY better than I experience 95% of the time at a movie theater (taking into account the fact that all the sound absorption and light control employed at your local state of the art multiplex do nothing with respect to people shuffling/talking and looking at their cell phones etc.).

I'm running a relatively inexpensive system, but the "synergy" is great.

EPSON 8350 - 1080P projector
Darbee Darblet (new version)
Oppo 103
Elunevision reference 4K fixed screen 108"
Seating position about 9' from screen
Audio = Anthem MRX 720, DSPeaker Antimode 8033, SVS PB 1000, Energy CF50, CC-10, CR-10
PLUS Polk MC-60 x 4 and two two channel amps for the 4 atmos ceiling speakers

There is nothing particularly "special" about the above noted equipment. And I didn't go crazy with "green goo", double drywall, etc. for the build. But my system could be anything from unwatchable (in the wrong room) all the way to quite spectacular.

The following inexpensive/free considerations all contribute to the experience...

1) The room is in the basement, has no windows, and only one door.
2) Two walls are exterior concrete poured foundation but sound insulation was employed all around and on the ceiling
3) Rear wall is a very flat and very black paint color with very dark flat grey on the side walls The ceiling is mostly white (unfortunately) but I did extend the flat black paint out a couple feet at the side walls and the ceiling
4) The low console and my LCR box speakers are all covered in "Protostar" telescope flocking to cut down reflections
5) There is no glass in the room or hard furnishings and I have a couple absorption panels on the ceiling to reduce the negative impact of the relatively low ceiling height.
6) While I did not spend hundreds on a professional calibration I did a lot of trial and error combined with a few spears and munsil patterns to get to a picture that I'm very happy with

I can't overstate how much #1, #3, and #4 combined make it appear as though my 108" screen is a giant Plasma floating in space. Yes, the black levels are not on par with my Plasma upstairs (or OLED TV's for that matter) but everything else is just SO GOOD that I really don't care that much about black levels. And to be honest, the 8350's achilles heal is blacks but in my basement HTR near optimal conditions I don't see a problem.

With respect to speakers, my Energy's are sadly not on par with the North American made Energy's from the 90's/'00s BUT I believe I'd have to spend at least three times as much to get similar sound via in-wall speakers. The Protostar material is a great solution to allow for box speakers placed into the room without compromising the video quality.

Just a couple other random points related to other comments in the thread...
1) 4K Projectors... check out the new Optima's using the new texas instruments chip (NATIVE 4K for < $2500)
2) Is 4K a "con"?... I am perfectly happy with 1080P blu-ray content but some sports on cable on my 108" screen are nearly unwatchable (whereas Netflix via my cable box looks pretty good). I wonder how much better 4K sports content over my cable box would look relative "1080i" (arguably 720p in some regions / cable companies)?

 

Excellent comment. I haven't seen an 'optimal' projector setup. Movie theaters are the only real experience I have with projectors, aside from PowerPoint presentations at numerous conferences.

As far as 4k goes I've read that large projector screens are where you are likely to see a benefit. Smaller screens you don't really need to go past 1080p.

I do wish DVD/blu-ray had a binaural track for headphones.

 

There's a common misunderstanding that 4K is not visible. That's absolutely false, particularly with projection as the screen is large enough to show the difference - provided you sit close enough, as the chart below shows:



The Optoma/BenQ DLP based 4K projectors (I call them FauxK) are not native 4K. They use mirror wobbling to have the same pixel display multiple within the same frame, so it's not a 4K image until the frame completes. Visually, the eye can still see improved detail over 1080p, but upon close inspection it isn't even close to true 4K like the Sony projectors (which I have in my home theater on a 112" screen, seated 10 feet away).

 

Thanks for the clarification. But is it fair to say that the new TI chip based projectors represent a step up from "pixel shifting" 4K projectors that have been available for a few years now?

This source seems to think so...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/4k-dlp-projectors.htm

"Therefore, despite the fact that the 4K DLP chip itself has 4.15 million mirrors instead of 8.3 million, we have no problem categorizing the 4K projectors using this chip as native 4K resolution based on the fact that they can display a clean 1-pixel line test pattern. No native 4K projector can do any better. Practically speaking, the number of mirrors on the chip is irrelevant if it can put 8.3 million discrete pixels on the screen and fully resolve a 4K 1-pixel line pattern... we would argue that the new 4K projectors featuring TI's 4K DLP chip qualify as native 4K based on the acute precision of the image on the screen, and the ability of each mirror to drive two independent single pixel structures. How they do that is related to some behind-the-scenes technological magic (proprietary to TI) that you will never be aware of."

(I'm not questioning your position, just trying to better understand this myself)

Thanks!

 

Fair enough. I think the question of whether the new TI chip is Native 4K is relevant but mutually exclusive from the question of whether the current projectors employing the new TI chip are better than the like priced competition.

This is an excellent article that illustrates the point above. It is also consistent with your assessment...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson-4000-optoma-uhd60-review.htm

The way I see it, the new projectors employing the TI 4K chip have been built to a price point and other components (plastic vs glass lense etc.) have been compromised in favor of a presumably more expensive TI chip. It will be interesting to see what the TI chip can do in a more upmarket offering in say the $3500 range?

My 8350 was a stop gap... just hoping my bulb dies sometime after true 4K laser projectors are available for about $5K

 

Ive looked at projectors several times, and every time I’ve come down on JVC being the only option I’d be ok with. They’re the only ones with good contrast for not crazy pricing.

Though their base model is more expensive than many want to spend :/