Vintage Receivers/Amplifiers

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Luckbad, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    yamaha, and kenwood c2 i had, had dedicated op amps for headphone outputs in the preamp...but, too be honest a headphone amp is nothing more then a preamp really. headphones amps are really nothing special or even needed. they dont magically bring out any special extra resolution or inner detail. most preamps have low enough output impedance for full sized heasphones anyways and provide enough voltage and current for tiny headphone drivers. just get a nice preamp and drive headphones off that or if really anal anout having low output impedance, just drive it off a power amp speaker outs. studios been doing that for years and still do ot that way for distrubution boxes.
     
  2. Rex Aeterna

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    just go to local guitar center and buy a 1/4" speaker cable and cut one end off if dont feel like making your own cable.
     
  3. bixby

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    Most preamps that I have seen have pretty high output impedance on their line outs. If you are talking about running a headphone out of that? Many over 1,000 ohms

    Or if you mean most preamp headphone jacks have low enough output impedance, then never mind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  4. Rex Aeterna

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    if talking bout their rca line out and preouts, yea their impedance is gonna be high. im talking bout their headphone output on the preamps. the headphone output is usually tied to the preouts but, like receivers with a dropping resistor in place.

    most old preamps i use to own had low enough output impedances for my 600ohm headphones and 50ohm headphones. most preamp headphone outputs are around between 20 something to 50ohm output impedance which is pretty avg and not bad. when comes to planers its pretty much mute anyways. planers are probably easiest things to drive since they're pretty much purely resistive. planers just get bad rep from being power hungry is due to most of them having low sensitivity...
     
  5. bixby

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    I tried a high end vintage Yamaha preamp a few years back. Not sure if they just padded down the outputs or not, but it did not sound that great. I think it is really hard to get vintage stuff in nice shape without spending a lot to have the stuff recapped or ones that have already been triaged.

    cheers
     
  6. RAZRr1275

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    Anyone have a Sansui 9090 or Pioneer SX-1010? How did you like them with headphones?
     
  7. Ice-man

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    The Sansui is better by a fair margin. Still the Pioneer 1010 is not bad. Depends on condition quite a bit.
     
  8. RAZRr1275

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    That's interesting - SX-1010 vs 9090 kinda seems like a Ford vs Chevy debate from what I've read. Both generally highly regarded but people tend to fall pretty strongly on one side or the other. How do you think they play in comparison to the modern amps?
     
  9. Ice-man

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    Most vintage receiver will pair well with planar headphones. Many of those receivers use the same output stage on the headphone jack as they do for speakers, so that is plenty of power there. You typically get some hiss though on hd800/hd650 etc. It will be a warmer, darker signature with vintage amps/receivers...and some people will like this over a modern headphone amp.

    I owned MANY of these receivers and liked lot's of them, but ultimately came back to modern headphone amps.
     
  10. Rex Aeterna

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    If it had the variable loudness contour I can see why. Also I noticed some Yamaha pres and receivers had very high gain which introduced more noise so it's -20db muting switch always made sound cleaner to me...I haven't used a Yamaha or any vintage stuff lately. Only stuff I still have around are nad stuff and still use the 1000s(same as 106. London model) here and there but, that stuff from the 90's so...
     
  11. Rex Aeterna

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    It's most likely due combination of sensitivity of headphone and gain issues of amp/receiver. Could also just need old parts replaced cause depending on it's uses, parts inside could worn down quick causing noise leakage. Just possibility.

    The whole warm/dark thing is due to impedance mis-match. Usually receivers used very high output impedances due to very high resistor values. Can either bypass completely by hooking directly to speaker outputs or simply change resistor value in the amp/receiver...
     
  12. Thenewerguy009

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    Is changing the resistor value difficult?
     
  13. Armaegis

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    Typically not... the more difficult part may be physically in opening the case and getting access to the jack if there's a lot of stuff in the way. If you're sticking with planar headphones, I just wouldn't even bother and build a speaker tap instead.
     
  14. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    i am in love with my Sansui Au-7700 , someone repair it for me and the sound is to my liking, the many functions of this amp are useful, his pre/amplification function is good and useful now and in the future....
     
  15. Rex Aeterna

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    newguy, i would use speaker outs if have good amp with good s/n ratios. it's not hard to make simple adapter really a simple tiny project box. people use resistors in place to make the amp see an 8ohm load to help deal with s/n issues but, i find it not too much necessary. the amp won't care if it's 8ohms or 2000ohm load really. only tubes need resistors in place if load is too low. i mean people do it to match the output transformer impedance but, in some cases not really needed either and not issue as long as the load is not lower than the rated impedance capability of the transformer and tubes. tubes handle high impedances fine.

    some amps you'll have to worry if it's common ground sometimes cause lot of times most adapters and connectors made tie the 2 negatives forming a single ground. but, only an issue if the headphone is naturally wired that way. if you have your headphone balanced where the 2 negatives are separate like bare wire hanging or wired to 2 separate 3-pin xlrs or 1 single 4-pin xlr jack then you don't need to worry if amp is common ground or not.

    amp power is also not an issue. if it blows, it's user fault most likely. or if the amp was never tested and sends straight dc to the speakers due to faults in the amp and dc offset... i used 4kw crown amps with headphones before with no issues and even small 20wpc amps as well with no issues on my part. if amp has input attenuators that is even better when come to noise control cause can always lower input level of the amp to quiet the signal to dead silent if the headphone is really sensitive. don't have to worry bout power delivery cause if big amps will only require couple volts to reach full output and with attenutors down even bare minimum you might have use bit extra volume/gain headroom from preamp/source which is still more then enough usually.

    benefits is pretty unlimited power and infinite damping factor when using speaker outputs with headphones. it's like using active crossover filters for speakers for the first time due to way better control of the drivers. it can benefit the user but, it all comes down to taste. some people like certain resonances cause by a driver due to lack of control. why some people like high impedance sources with certain bright headphones or speakers to make them sound warmer/fatter and overcasts/masks the brightness or causes odd frequency dip within the top-end and air response to give it a darker vibe.
     
  16. sah

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    I have a Yamaha CR-1020 that I use for my speaker setup (with Dynaudio DM 2/6s). Sounds great driving the speakers, but the headphone outs are a little bit bass-heavy somehow compared to my O2 and Valhalla 2. Not bad sounding, but I don't think it's neutral, either. Does okay with the HD600 due to its light bass response, but with my K712 it can be too much. Anyone understand why it would have that signature?
     
  17. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Most likely culprit is high output impedance on the HP out jack.
     
  18. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Just wanted to chime in with my vintage amp experience. I bought a luxman l80 broken for about $20 aud, The exterior and veneer were in perfect shape but the fuse was blown, some caps and really old resistors needed replacing. Cost me about $20 and 5 hours to fix it.

    This is a very capable amp, it has built in phono, A and B speaker output which is really easy to use and can run two sets of speakers pretty easily, really gorgeous front panel and the wood veneer looks soo retro.

    This is a very tube like sounding Amp, very warm and thick sounding, bass is heavily accentuated, treble rolled and highs are a bit tame.

    Even though I've moved into some really expensive territory, I am not likely to sell this old timer.
     
  19. ak2angel

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    Love to see a fellow luxman user here. I'm currently having a l80v and a l309, and I must say that these are quite good. They pair well with high-impedance cans, especially the HD6x0 imo (improve bass and present a really seductive, tube-like midrange)
     
  20. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    I picked up another luxman l30 as a bit of a project for a present for a friend. The lady I bought it from gave me a turntable as well - A Luxman PD 272 in pretty much mint condition as well.

    Once i have 2 matching units I have to finnish a set. Maybe I should finnish a vintage luxman wood veneer set? I wonder if I can find a DA-07?
     

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