VPI Classic Series Discontinued 2017

I couldn't remember what Harry Weisfeld had said about playing records directly on his metal platters. I ran across this interview from 2010. I am including the entire interview since it is so short.

Harry, What led you to the design of the VPI Classic Turntable?

The Thorens 124 idler drive and the Rek-O-Kut idler drive lead me to the rim drive for the HR-X and the SuperScoutmaster which gives the same amount of “you are there” bass as the old idler drives but without the noise level of that fast spinning idler. The rim drive I make rotates at 70 RPM. The belt drive Empires and Rek-O-Kuts have some of this but with less noise so I tried to get the best of both worlds, the quiet of the belt with the immediacy of the idler drive. The Classic is the result. A short belt for minimum flex, motor and platter and arm locked together on the same plinth for great detail and no random motion, and a powerful motor to keep the heavy platter spinning no matter what happens in the groove. All attached to a 60 pound mass that sinks the vibration. As long as they move together there is no random motion, which leads to amazing clarity and speed control.

How does the aluminum platter alter the sonic characteristics of the turntable?

The aluminum platter has more dynamics, greater focus, and a larger deeper soundstage, but most importantly, because we can machine aluminum very accurately and it stays that way (acrylic and Delrin do not) the speed accuracy is amazing.

I see you include a mat, but you recommend going directly on to the metal in the manual. Which do you prefer and why? What are the sonic differences?

I go directly to the platter or on the supplied paper mat, I do not use any rubber, or polymer material on my platter in my listening room. That does not mean that in some systems the mat may not sound better but my system has no brightness and is very smooth so the aluminum gives me the speed and detail of live music and that is what I prefer. Besides, the platter is damped with a stainless steel disc glued into the bottom for critical damping.

Please explain the concept of tying the platter/motor/arm together. How does it affect the sound? How does it alter the feedback characteristics.

By putting the platter, motor, and tonearm on the same mounting assembly there cannot be any random motion between the three items and that means perfect speed stability combined with a lack of randomly generated movements of the stylus. In a standard suspended table the motor is isolated from the platter and arm by a suspension, the suspension allows the platter and arm to move in relationship to the motor producing a frequency modulation that we hear as a time smear. The Classic has no time smear and is therefore producing sound like the monster megabuck tables for a fraction of the cost.

How does this control acoustic feedback?

Another benefit is if everything moves together then when a sound source like the speaker produces energy in the room all three items move together creating no sound – vastly lowered feedback levels. Remember, the cartridge only makes sound if the cantilever moves independently of the body and arm.

I find it truly amazing that you have achieved this level of performance from a turntable at this price.

We are doing our best to bring the magic of vinyl to as many people as possible.
Thank you, Harry.

http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/5/23/the-vpi-classic-turntable?rq=harry weisfeld

 

Thanks for that @Dino , that fills a gap in my understanding of their product lines and the philosophy behind the Classic. This comes on the heels of the Scout and Superscout which evolved in the early to mid 2000s, which in turn came from the HW series.Are the HW motors mounted on a separate plinth as well? I forget, now, but I didnt think so.

I do recall when a lot of people were grousing over how hard it was to get the rim drives to work accurately thus the new ungrooved platters. And the rim drives just failed, everyone was reselling them. Today they are rarer than hens' teeth, and priced accordingly.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/t...analog-53149-mukwonago-wi?refsource=hifishark

That will sit forever.

 

I don't remember 100%, but I am picturing the motor being attached to the base.

 

And that's all due to HW's somewhat disconcerting habit of jumping on any particular TT trend-of-the-moment, and then marketing it as an 'ohmygodthisisthebestturntablewe'veevemade!!!' product, even while they are still making, selling, and marketing other totally different design philosophies, all with glowing ad copy touting their wonders. Which apparently works well from a business perspective, and I seriously mean it when I say I think that's great, but you're left wondering whether any of it is about actually listening to music being played from a vinyl record.

Note: I'm not anti-VPI by any stretch, I've owned a Scout/JMW 9 and an Aries/JMW 12.5, and still own a 16.5 and SDS. They make quality machines built to last, and that's one design philosophy anyone can get behind.

 

Not sure if this is the right thread but.

Is there any real difference between the classic 3 and 4? Assuming you dont need 2 arms or the 12 inch one? Do 12 inch and 10 inch arms sound different?

 

Maybe start a separate one? That question will be buried here. I personally think the 10s are enough because whatever gain you get from the reduction in tracking error you pay back in stiffness loss and mass. They do sound different though, IIRC.

 

Sheesh, is VPI just going to become a manufacturer for boutique rebrands now?

 

The fresh smell of Walnut Vinyl Wrap.
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016...f-vpi-launches-new-prime-turntable-in-walnut/

 

That's just an prime with a standalone motor. I'm sure Harman tuned it to match the Levinsons. Anything that increase volume for VPI is a good thing to me. They are a mature company that is run fairly well, unlike LH Labs, so the increase in buying power should bode well for them overall. This may very well be like the Shinola dealio, at a higher price point.
Custom designed weight and platter mat, indeed.

 

At least this one doesn't have a build in phono.

I also hope to see VPI do well and strengthen their core brand with the increased volume and more discerning customers.

 

it seems that VPI is still offering Classics, just not really advertising that fact... you just have to call them up and order one, is what I heard from a dealer guy. haven't confirmed this with VPI yet.

 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016...f-vpi-launches-new-prime-turntable-in-walnut/

Is also a Prime wrapped in vinyl. Gawd, what a bad review.

 

Tables are diminishing returns for sure. In some thread Harry states that the Avenger is a step forward from the TNTs as they are smaller space, with less ringing from the plinth mass. I think he sincerely believes what he says, but it comes off as contradictory.

 

I just called and spoke to Seth who has a used Classic 1 for $1800 and can't give me any discount on the B-stock Classic 1. However there is a used periphery ring for $500 and he can set me up a package with the used Classic 1, periphery ring and 2M-Black for $2700. Should I pull the trigger on the package or just hold tight?

 

That sounds like a sweet deal for the package. What about the HRX center weight? Grab that too if it isn't included, it goes hand in hand with the periphery ring.

Walnut or black table?

 

Is there a big difference between the HRX center weight and the Delrin center weight?

P.S. @Gaspasser if you don't end up going with that package I'm going to call and order that used periphery ring.