Xec needs listening/whisky room advice

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Xecuter, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. Xecuter

    Xecuter Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    i did want to keep my EC studio as my main speaker amp, but it just limits my speaker choices too severely..
     

  2. Mngnt

    Mngnt Rando

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Went through a music room/studio build in my basement recently. Nowhere near as fancy as what you're doing and I did it all myself (room inside a room with green glue and osb/drywall layers, etc).

    One thing jumped out at me after reading your plans - for sound proof you don't want triple anything, as more air cavities is actually worse for sound transmission. Be sure your contractors have valid experience and knowledge in work like this, as a lot of it is counter intuitive. Doing it the right vs wrong way is often a matter of simply using the materials in a different way, not necessarily more of anything. Going through all the trouble of isolated walls etc can be completely useless if a shortcut is taken elsewhere (untreated holes in the walls for electrical outlets, improper ventilation, etc).

    Please don't take this the wrong way, your setup will be incredible, but I definitely think the audio consultant is a good Idea!

    Looking forward to build pics!
     
    Xecuter likes this.
  3. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT: Sonarworks

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    6W in 8 Ohms isn't much to work with... What kind of music do you listen to?
     
  4. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Estonia
    Studio can likely drive some totl horns or widebanders loud enough for even mid-far field use.
    The amount of trouble and bling you are diving in you should get effin' full range sound in return.

    For proper bass forget Studio right away. It won't have a firm grip of large bass drivers.
    And forget sub bass with that amount of power and 4 ohms or what ever it's source resistance is.

    The bass section can be of arbitrary sensitivity, you can feed either of the potential amp candidates with attenuation, won't degrade the sound more than any high quality pot.

    Maybe some Accuphase class A or even Vidar could perform the bass part.
    Push-pull will have better grip, at least on paper.
    Good class A solid state is likely closer to Studio in character. More tuneful and rich in microdynamics.
     
    Xecuter likes this.
  5. JCYK

    JCYK Rando

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    20K Aud can get you a Franco Serblin Ktema, beautiful beautiful speakers, amazing sound.

    As for amps, i cannot more highly recommend, Airtight ATM 3 Monoblocks, jason would concur on this one. By the way, these monoblocks have attenuators on em, so no need for a pre.

    Alternatively, the flagship A class amps for Accuphase, the A200, can be found for less than 16k USD a pair if you get them from hong kong or japan. They were recently displaced by the A210 which was released a few months back. I doubt that the A210 is even better. But i do know the A200 are absolutely glorious. You dont need to get the pair, one would suffice.

    You can then use the studio as a preamp.

    Rotijon here btw, cant seem to login to my old account.
     
  6. Xecuter

    Xecuter Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    I tend to listen to a a wide range of genres. I mainly chase really clean and crisp recording/mastering but will listen to anything from RATM to classical. I'm also a big fan of good vocalists but again anything from Tom Waits to Agnes Obel.

    I did consider bi-amping. Using the voxativ ampeggio due with the voxativ subwoofer and maybe a monster class D amp to run the sub with DSP etc.
    Another possibility was just running two speaker set ups, one 'blow your dick off' rig (the JBL or maybe the proac d100) and another laser precise horn option like the PSE-144E, voxativ or OB.This is pretty costly though as I increase my costs in amps and speakers significantly..
    I also considered commissioning a more power set of tube monoblocks to handle harder loads..
    Too many options...


    Oh man, good to hear from you rotijon!
    I have heard the Accuphase A200 and thought it was excellent, I really just want to get into the speaker game first. As I hear more stuff I can always sell and upgrade as I gain more experience and understanding into what I want..

    Hope you are well my friend. Hoping to get your SFL-2 back in action with this room some how.
     
  7. JCYK

    JCYK Rando

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Definitely, all the kit i mentioned above have fantastic resale value, especially if you buy second hand. Heck, id expect a profit. If im honest, i doubt that my speaker hobby since its beginning would cost more than 5k if i were to liquidate my permanent system now.

    Franco Serblin Ktema - The original creator for this Franco Serblin is the guy who founded sonus faber. This is his final masterpiece. The price ain't going nowhere, he is not coming out of the grave to make a new one. A second hand one can be bought for 12-15k USD. Shipping is the only biggie.

    Airtight ATM 3 - Its been in production since 40 years ago. Very very difficult to find a second hand unit. Its basically totl, even if one were to spend that crazy money, its not guaranteed to be better, at best, more power. Founder is also in his 90's, he never makes direct upgrades, just different sound products. Also just a beautiful match with the Ktema, not that super warm and adddictive EAR sound, more balanced, better punch and precision. You can use these with the SFL 2. There was once a unit in Singapore for 10k SGD. I think you can get it around there locally.

    A200 - Solid state aint going to get much better than this. If at all. Secondhand prices will not drop much more as accuphase always has a Schiit-ish reputation in high end.
     
    Xecuter likes this.
  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Friend Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I was thinking if you don't have that much power on tap, something with big JBL horns might be the ticket.
     
  9. Xecuter

    Xecuter Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    The JBL I liked (4367) is 94dbl, they claim 6watts will push it well enough, but I think I might have to get a bit more power to really get the JBL thumping. I could bi-amp:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    ^^^ Boy your Studio would be great for the Mid/High frequencies. Then add something SBAF approved for the bass...

    edit - can a Studio's pre-out and speaker amp section be active at the same time?
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT: Sonarworks

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    With 8W driving 2x94dB speakers at 3m distance you're getting 96dB peaks tops. Single digit wattage amps require triple digit sensitivity speakers.
     
    MrTeaRex likes this.
  12. Xecuter

    Xecuter Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't think the studio can be used as a pre. There are no pre-outs.
     
  13. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Home Page:
    You should bi-amp the bass with some nice class D stuff IMO.
     
  14. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Estonia
    I'm using my old EC 2A3 as pre from speaker outs (imagine, it's also balanced, hehe). Haven't had better pre.
    It would be somewhat waste of good 2A3 tubes, which Studio has 4.
    A 2A3 tube amp with ot-s is imo quite excellent for the job from technical pov.
    I imagine specialized transformer (smaller, less losses, even less distortion into high ohms) for pre use would be upgrade still.
    Maybe if you ask nicely, Craig will make the 45 pre a reality.
     
  15. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I'm far form a speaker wizard, but I might disagree with that. While modern inefficient speakers would crave the class D stuff, these JBLs are throw backs to when JBL made amazeballs super sized studio monitors. They sipped watts not gulped. I wouldn't rule any amp category out (I'd want class A hoping for some sweet sweet mid bass)
     
  16. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT: Sonarworks

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    Besides watts'a'plenty, D class is also known for really high damping factors. Makes bass extra firm. With that said, JBL woofers handle too much mids to be treated with class D, unless it's of Hypex quality.
     
    MrTeaRex likes this.
  17. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Home Page:
    Yes, good quality Class D obviously, as I said in my post.

    Class A bass reproduction is generally pretty poor compared to good Class D due to damping factor, as Hrodulf alluded to above. Until you have heard good Class D in this configuration, it's pretty silly to talk about the quality of mid-bass reproduction being inferior to the generally muddier/looser bass of Class A.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 8:38 AM
    MrTeaRex likes this.

Share This Page