Yggdrasil Refined - New Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 Sound Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by David De Lucena, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. rlow

    rlow Almost "Made"

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    Jason, considering some people were pissed because "2 years ago I thought I bought the best DAC Schiit could make, and now I have to pay over $500 plus shipping to make it best again", even though the damn DACs are marketed as upgradable, shows that you will never please everyone. I think a 6 month separation between upgrades is plenty, and I suspect it's not likely to happen very often (when will 2 separate components of the DAC be upgraded with a short timeframe again?) so I wouldn't worry about it, and just keep doing what you're doing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 7:11 AM
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  2. SnowPuppy

    SnowPuppy Rando

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  3. msommers

    msommers Friend

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    A Canadian service facility would be really nice to avoid dealing with customs, and shipping is cheaper for us.
     
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  4. rlow

    rlow Almost "Made"

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    Yeah that would certainly be helpful for us Canucks for sure. I was thinking with the Yggy upgrade it might be cheaper (or close to the same cost) and less hassle for folks up here to just sell theirs used and then rebuy it new...
     
  5. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    There's quite a difference between the frequency and advisability of (say) Schiit DAC upgrades once in a blue moon versus some of the crazy Audeze/Mr Speakers "point release" kludges, mind.
     
  6. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Friend

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    Er... This is a $2,400 DAC, shipping cost is around 4% of the DAC's original price for 2 day delivery within the US. Methinks that anyone so cost-sensitive would have had a much bigger problem with the original DAC cost. Not to mention that some of us did not rush to get Gen 5 and so we can get both upgrades in one trip. Those who can't control their purchasing impulses have little call to complain when their expenses climb...
     
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  7. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    /shrug

    It really is impossible to please all of the people all of the time. Best that can be done is choose between the better of two 'evils'. I do think @Dino is correct that the shipping cost (and probably hassle/downtime) are the main annoyance factors in this particular case, but still no product timing is going to make everyone happy (and that includes Schitt in the equation, as sitting on new product for 6 months to align with the next is a lose for them), so no point in even considering making everyone happy a goal.

    In my case I bought the Eitr the day it was offered, and waited for another upgrade significant enough that I felt it was worth shipping (at which point I planned on upgrading the USB board at the same time). That day has come, so all good. Though again as Dino noted, yep, someone else who chose that is going to whine about buying an Eitr they no longer have an immediate use for. /shrug again.

    p.s. That written, Schitt's queue system is great and it does everything right as far as I am concerned, though I bet someone out there is whining that it doesn't provide an estimated date (don't do it, because then they will whine if the estimated date is missed - the no way to please everyone truth of the matter).
     
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  8. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Apparently I have been around people who do not always have a reasoned internal debate before feeling anger. Why is Schiit getting pushbacks?
     
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  9. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

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    I have seen far too many businesses fail having the best intentions, the best technologies, and the best engineering, and yet fail to account for fickle irrational customers.

    I think I can say that many customers here are of the "extremely intelligent, extremely well informed" variety. If schiit lost all their other customers and only had these types left, I suspect they wouldn't be in business.

    Running a business is a pragmatic exercise in straddling the line between offering great products, and understanding and navigating the fundamental fickle irrationality of a general customer base. It's marketing, and at times, it is even more important than engineering.

    Sometimes the question is, should Schiit pretend they live in an ideal world and offer upgrades as fast as possible while alienating customers, or should Schiit recognise they live in the real world and they have to provide the best customer experience possible for an average customer that might slightly inconvenience the most well-informed/well-educated customers, who are going to buy their products anyway because they are the best?

    Part of this question has implications for whether schiit remains in business at all.
     
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  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Amen.

    Engineering is a huge factor in an engineering oriented business, but without customers (aka 'humans'), there is no $'s, and no $'s equals no pay for the engineers, and well you can see how the schiit rolls down hill from here.

    Besides, a good portion of good engineering is about accounting for human preferences, foibles, and what is cool in the current social moment. The business side must account for the same.

    p.s. but companies that are purely selling marketing bs, where engineering is second deserve to die ASAP too. The holy trinity of quality engineering, good business practice, and timely/relevant marketing still works today.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM
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  11. Lasollor

    Lasollor Almost "Made"

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    I thought most people who complaining are international customers. From Asia for example the shipping could easily cost more than 300-400 usd. But that is not Schiit’s fault.
    Within the US I think it is reasonable to upgrade in a more frequent basis.
     
  12. winders

    winders Friend

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    Dude, really, the sky isn't falling....jeez.
     
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  13. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    @Dotard

    If anything, @schiit says no to customers where it counts... else we'd have gaudy blue/pulsing rgb leds and more of them, useless vu meters, bluetooth, underlit green led vacuum tubes, a power switch on the front collecting finger grease around the aluminum, running 120VAC across the board, digital volume control chips making it easier to put an led indicator of volume position, bla, bla, bla

    ...need I go on :D

    I think they ARE listening where it counts, sound quality, quality workmanship/materials, engineering, price, efficiency, etc.

    we're all having fun, us and them
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 3:21 PM
  14. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Yep, saying 'no' is just as important (when 'no' makes sense) as saying 'yes'. Can't make everyone happy all the time.
     
  15. msommers

    msommers Friend

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    Like standing up to the wife eh :D
     
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  16. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    Yggy and especially the USB5 and A2 upgrades are probably a tiny fraction of Schiit's business. I bet you things like Magni 3 and Fulla are what keeps the company afloat. From their A2 upgrade queue, there are about 150 people waiting for upgrades, so that's like $82500 in revenue, which is a drop in the bucket for them, based on other numbers Jason's mentioned in the past.

    I think sometimes we project our own drama onto the company, and forget that we (the Yggy users), and then the fraction of those owners that are unhappy about the upgrades, are a tiny part of the company's revenues and our feelings don't reflect the general operation or health of the company. There're way more (100x?) Magni, Modi, Fulla, etc. customers out there perfectly happy with their stuff.
     
  17. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 4:38 PM
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  18. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    Raising the price of the Yggdrasil to reflect the upgrade & quietly lowered the price in steady increments over the months to be back to what it normally is & no one would have complained.
     
  19. Elnrik

    Elnrik Friend

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    Please tell me you don't honestly believe one of the goldfish over at HF wouldn't notice the pricing changes you suggested and then launch a conspiracy campaign of mammoth proportions.
     
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  20. winders

    winders Friend

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    That is a terrible idea. It would generate more complaints.
     
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