ZMF EIKON & ZMF ATTICUS

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gbeast, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    The only thing I'm disappointed in is how this thread basically reads like a Head-fi/Reddit-tier circlejerk. In reality the Eikon is a $1300 closed headphone that is deservedly mid-fi (the "fi" stands for fidelity) and lets you hear less of the recording than the HD6X0, regardless of amp pairing.

    Worthy of being on the sealed wall of fame? Sure. Worthy of getting upset every time it's criticized for what it is? No. I haven't heard the Atticus. I thought Tyll's Eikon review was not only accurate but grounded in measurements.
     
  2. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    I couldn't care less about any particular manufacturer. I own the HD650 and have no intention of buying one of the new ZMFs.

    What I'm trying to say is that where was the blunt review when the $3000 HE-1000 was evaluated? I did not see any words about lackluster build quality. Just the slightest hint that the build was sub-par.

    All manufacturers must be held to the same standard. You can't handle one with kid gloves and be harsh to another.

    I welcome harsh reviews which is one of the reasons i was drawn to SBAF. For me the harsher the better when evaluating 'premium' products.
     
  3. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    Honestly, this whole IF thing is overblown. He didn't fall madly in love with Eikon but still gave it a pretty positive review. The Atticus strays even farther away from his tuning preferences so no surprises there. Yes, his review has the potential to hurt Zach's sales. That sucks but that is the reality of making anything for profit. Someone with a big audience might not like it and say so. Its a risk everyone in the industry faces. Time to move on. There are plenty of other respected reviewers who like them.
     
  4. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    That's what happens when people spend a lot of money on something.

    The Eikon isn't mid fi but I guess everyone has a different scale. My scale is Low Fi - Apple Earbuds / Beats ... Mid Fi - Fidelio X2, THX00 ... High Fi - HD650, Eikon ... Summit Fi - Utopia, Stax 009, Code X, Modded HD800. For you, Low Fi could start at the X2 and go up from there.
     
  5. silvrr

    silvrr New

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    I had some time to listen to both versions of the Eikon during a recent meet. Having them side by side it was easy to tell the two woods apart and I much preferred the cherry. I don't recall the differences exactly as it was a while ago, however, the paduak didn't have as much of a natural presentation to the upper bass lower mids. I don't recall the upper registers being affected.
     
  6. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    This whole witch hunt has gotten out of hand. I disagree with Tyll, but it's not the first review I've ever disagreed with and won't be the last. The only constructive criticism I could see being made a big deal is a lack of comparisons to other closed headphones in the $1k - $2k space. While comparing to completely unrelated headphones is good to have a basis for comparison, I'd like to see details on how they stack up against their direct competition.

    I think the matter with Tylls reviews needs to be put to rest, unless their is something constructive to say and not just more dog piling.
     
  7. elguapo

    elguapo Gringos falling from the skys

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    This is starting to feel like an email blast where one person replies to all, and 20 people reply to all just to say "stop replying to all!" Sorry to add to the noise.
     
  8. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    I actually switched my order to the Eikon because the bio driver was too tempting. With the CanJam promo, it was only $100 more than the Atticus. I liked the Atiicus a tiny bit more but I think the Eikon will work better with my SS set up and my yet to be chosen tube amp. The Atticus is a shit ton of fun but it really needs the right gear synergy to shine. The amps the Atticus sound best on are unfortunately out of my price range for the moment.
     
  9. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    Hey Tyll :)

    Keep doing your thing man.
     
  10. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I'm not saying this to put your opinion down or make it sound like I'm trying to start an argument, but this is incredibly far from a witch hunt. It's a lot of people bitching because Tyll wrote his review in such a way that it can be taken positively if you read certain sections of it or damning if you look at others. Specifically, the tear down was too much and the Utopia/PM3 comparisons (instead of the comparisons to its actual competition) were puzzling.

    It's more that a lot of inviduals are upset that Tyll has stated he's made mistakes with the WoF, yet keeps puzzling choices like the Ether C/Flow up when they've been outdone by a headphone he didn't choose to compare it to for whatever reason.

    That said, it doesn't help when individuals come in here with statements that are trying to fan the flames like "the Eikon is lo-fi and the HD650
    Is obviously better." Or calling this thread a head-fi/Reddit circle-jerk. I've seen Reddit circle jerks...nobody here is saying the Eikon should be driven on an O2. :p
     
  11. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    This says it all...
    Completely agree here.
    When you get these types of responses there is an obvious valid points on the integrity of the review....

    Anyways,

    To get back to being more constructive and without anymore pitchforking,

    In Tyll last comments, quote :
    "I don't consider the Eikons to be reference grade due to a lack of nuanced resolve, I do consider them a wonderfully pleasant listen."

    I can agree to that..!!! ..
    but differently.

    To me, the Eikon is a musical top of the heap "closed can".
    But no closed can has really reached a " reference level" of open cans.

    What it lacks in final (Utopia) levels of transparency,
    it makes up for in a extremely well balanced signature and above average soundstage..

    For closed wooden cans,
    Only the Sony R10 is able at doing a better job, but it mainly excells with mids and trebles anyways.

    The AudioTechnica w3000anv was also a good can once pads were replaced with angled pads, but not at this level either.

    The Dennon AH-D2000 Mark L Mod I had was "V" shaped like most of those types.

    For open can rivals,
    The Eikons beat both the Elear and Flow to me..
    Neither of those have balanced signatures or soundstage...
    SO Yeah, a moded HD650 can also scale higher than those two with better soundstage as well!
    Yet the 650 takes modding and component matching to come alive,
    And the Eikon still beats it overall in bass and trebles.

    As far as soundstage perspective,
    I feel this is a very important aspect for long term listening..

    Too close = listener fatigue
    Too far = too laid back lack of involvement

    So striking a balance is important.
    For example,
    To me the Dan's (MrSpeakers) headphones are going thru the same stages of soundstage adjustment as Hifiman did with HEK, but reverse.

    The Hifiman HEK overdone their soundstage with V1 (probably trying to beat the HD800),
    and in version two, they brought it back to optimal /normal /natural.

    On the opposite spectrum, we have the Ether Flow, which over magnified the details, causing a compressed layering of the soundstage,
    into a sonic venue of a small club, and having nervous energy to boot.

    Front damping smooths the Flow all out to a liquid unique likable signature,
    but it remains with aggressive energy aspects like hd800.

    Focal's Utopia most probably not even thought to adress this issue of soundstage,
    because they certainly seem to have the "know how" to have matched an hd800 or HEK in clarity,
    but the soundstage is barely bigger than the Flow.

    And The Elear also sounds close yet deeper, much like your in a movie theater...(!)

    I admit it easy to get steamed when you disagree and feel a review not being fair,
    But I still like Tyll, regardless what he does, as he always comes across as likable.
    like a family member, you can disagree yet still like them.

    I agree he most probably have a brighter taste for headphones for his hearing as everyone have different levels of sensitivity.
    But his review is very odd that he struggles and sways from liking to bashing the Eikon at certain points.

    I initially had a list to counter every objective disagreement, but instead of continuing, that's all I'm going to say, so maybe we can move on..
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  12. MattRG

    MattRG Facebook Friend

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    This is a well-reasoned response and I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. At the end of the day it really is Tyll's website and his opinion and he is welcome to it. At the same time, we are free to disagree with his opinions and form our own.

    And as with every other piece of gear system synergy is so important that I almost feel that any time you review something for an audience you need to be very transparent about your entire gear chain and take the time to explain why you used the components that you did. No headphone (or amp, or source component) exists in a vacuum and especially on items that scale as well as the Eikon it very much matters what amp and dac you connect it to for the purposes of the review.

    So while I appreciated the teardown of the Eikon and the measurements that Tyll produced I felt the rest of the review was less useful (for me) and less relevant simply because there seemed to be so little testing done with upper end or ToTL equipment.
     
  13. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I'm a little baffled at the unhappiness in this thread. The IF review of the Eikon made me slightly more interested in hearing them than I was previously, if anything; it wasn't exactly a panning. Judging them against open-backed cans is playing hardball, and a nice data point.

    Reviews don't need to be lingering handjobs- indeed, it's better when they aren't. A $1300 closed-back headphone isn't exactly a mainstream product, so it's good to know what folks actually think about it, so you can make your own mind up whether to audition it or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  14. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Yep I agree and am all for that,
    which is why I would have liked a comparison to Elear, Hd650, Flow.. All would have been great.

    To compare anything to Utopia will give exactly the same useless "data point" answer, less transparency..
    Only the stats and HEKV2 can compete..

    Plus Utopia is not any good ruler to compare for anything else,
    as it has smaller soundstage and less bass than Eikon, or even arguably similar to the others..

    So really Utopia is a very specific leader in sonic attributes and really not useful for a comparison.

    Anyways there are plenty other more descriptive reviews already done and posted here like this one :
    http://earphiles.org/2017/04/totl-closed-headphone-shoot-out/
     
  15. MattRG

    MattRG Facebook Friend

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    Edit - Eikon shipped and on the way from ZMF. I look forward to trying them out on my setup and will most definitely post impressions of the pairing with the Night Blues Mini once I've had a proper listening session.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  16. GettingBuckets

    GettingBuckets Almost "Made"

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    I think this applies to more than just headphone reviews...

    Either way, I understand why people aren't too happy with Tyll's review, but at the end of the day, that's how he felt about the headphones. We can't really change his opinion, and the people on here have a good enough idea of their own preferences and what to look for anyways to know that one review isn't going to make or break us buying this headphone or not.
     
  17. TheIceman93

    TheIceman93 El pato-zorro

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    What the consensus on pairing the Eikon with the Jotenheim? I had a Jot for 15 days and it was a murder machine with my Beyer 1990's but those headphones have since been sold and the Eikon is the replacement. I have an iFi iTube 2 buffer that I'm adding as well which should help a tad with the staging issues of the Jot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  18. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I listen to one of my Eikons through a Jot at work about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week... Thumbs up here.

    I'm curious to try OTL amps as well. Besides demos, I haven't listened (long term) to OTL on the Eikon and see how it might have advantages. But as it sits now, I have no complaints about the Jot.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I agree. Me-myself-personally, I trust Tyll to tell it like he finds it. I have bought headphones on the strength of his reviews, and would do again.

    It's a tough job: what if my best friend makes some audio gear, with all love and enthusiasm, that I think is crap. What do I say on the internet?

    And anyway, those reviews were very far from "crap." Very far. Perhaps some people were disappointed that he didn;t say, "Best thing since sliced, errm, headphones." But that is not what he found. That's just the way it is.
     
  20. Erikdayo

    Erikdayo Friend

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    I'd love to order an Eikon, but I feel like I need to wait until I see a nice used deal. But I also really want to support ZMF. Hmm. Maybe I'll splurge and just buy it new eventually. Really intriguing headphone. Need something to replace my recently sold W5000.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017

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