Turntable advice

Ring/HRX weight are not standard on any of the Classic/Signature line. Apparently the ring is a major pain in the ass to machine (and of course it takes a big hunk of high quality metal to make) which is why they want $1K for it. I would watch out for one on the used market because it's a worthy upgrade. Helps the cart do it's job better by flattening the record as well as mating it to the platter. Also helps speed consistency by adding about 6-7lbs of mass to the platter.

The "Signature" is the Classic 3 with the 3D arm and HRX feet. They added the 3D arm and extra feet as standard because the Prime was uncomfortably close to the regular Classic 3. The 3D arm is a (IMO big) step up over the metal one which is why VPI include it standard on everything past the Classic 1. Sound is more "natural" and less punchy/aggressive because of less ringing. You can check the audio samples on analogplanet.

The primary difference between Classic 1 and 3 is the additional layer on the plinth and the tower with VTA on the fly adjustment. Personally I find VTA to be a "set it and forget it" type thing but the additional layer does improve the sonics.

 

From what I have heard with the VPI tables, I feel it is more about synergy than one tonearm material being outright better than another. A given cartridge might work better with the 3D tonearm and not as well with the metal arm. There are other cartridges that can sound too dead with the 3D arm and work wonderfully on the metal one.

Again, with an electromechanical device like a turntable, everything matters and needs to match up into what your listening preferences are for a given system.

Good to know that that ring / weight are not part of any package in the current VPI lineup. I remember when the Classic 3 was introduced, it was standard at the time with the package. The Classic 3 was souped up from the original Classic 1 and Classic 2. Same build quality as the Classic 4 which had dual tonearms setup. Also the ring used to sell for $599, but now they go for $1k. Definitely a huge improvement on the VPI tables, along with the SDS.

 

Is there a turntable that is considered the t50rp of turntables? In other words something that is pretty cheap and ok but can be modded to get some really good performance?

 

There are quite a few turntable manufacturers that have the modification upgrade as part of their philosophy, one of then is Linn. Through a very clever (and very profitable) upgrade path you can upgrade any deck even from the seventies into later/latest spec. This costs money though, lots of it. There are plenty aftermarket upgrades also.

Having gone that way (Linn Sondek LP12 owner for many years, until Latest plinth/Circus/newest ac motor/Hercules II/Upgraded Ekos/Subchassis and suspension upgrades) i would not advise it, unless you are psychologically bound with your Sondek, thankfully i wasn't and i quit before going for the bigger plunge.

If now you mean doing the mods yourself i can not find any better example than the Lenco that i own (actually two of them). You can make a good table starting from 300-400 euros (without tonearm) till the sky is the limit.

Regas can also be upgraded but to a limited extent.
Clearaudio also following Linn's footsteps like to upgrade their decks by adding layers of aluminiom and acrylic, footers,platters, different magnetic bearings( ) and make lots of money...

 

For sure. I am thinking my desired destination cart (Lyra Etna) will go better on the 3D though

I think you are right about the ring/weight originally being standard on the Classic 3. For me, I have decided the best bang for buck is to upgrade to an Avenger with the magnetic platter/single 12" arm and sell the Classic 1. I already have the ring/weight and XLR output box so I just need to add an SDS or roadrunner and call it a day in turntable land.

 

I have a Thorens TD-160 which I would recommend as a starter table and I've learned a ton just from owning it. So much tweak potential IMO and is "basic" compared to a lot of alternatives. If you can find one for a good price you shouldn't lose any money reselling it.

To the OP:
I think shopping for a new table you will have so many factors involved I would say it helps to learn what is important by owning a more affordable table first before you buy a kilobuck table. It's not like headphone gear really; there's a crazy amount of variables.

 

I just tried a VPI Classic yesterday with an integrated amp feeding a pair of Avalon speakers at a dealership. That was an eye-popping experience, to say the least. I'm intrigued, but my question now is where do I start if I want to jump into vinyl. Aside from TTs, I'm lost when it comes to looking around at phono pre-amps. I'm also wondering about which level of the TT hierarchy I should start at coming from the tail end of digital. I appreciate any and all advice.

 

The Technics SL-1200 Mk2 or Mk5 can be had for pretty cheap if you look carefully. There are spare parts and mods galore that make them punch well above their weight. You need to know how to solder pretty well though and there's a lot of idiot snake oil salesman to watch out for.

Plus you can do this with them:

 

Thank you to all for the great advice! By chance I saw a Nottingham Analogue Ace Space 294 come up second hand near me. After seeing the advice here I thought I would go to listen. Just amazing and took it home =)Couldn't be happier! Came with a Morch dp 6 arm and Dynavector xx2 mk II. Time to build a vinyl collection now =) Will post pics in the "show us your turntable thread" =)

Thanks again for the advice guys

-Dave

 

I LOVE that arm! Good god, that is one helluva setup. MAJOR CONGRATS!

What is the phono section?

 

I am extremely happy! Spun my first record last night after setting up the table. That was such a nice experience. There really is something satisfying about setting/dusting and then lowering the needle.

The phono pre is a WLM phonata Reference. Some interesting features, however i have no experience with other pre's to compare with. It automatically adjusts Load-Impedance, however i have yet to find how it does this exactly.

Also has two positions for RIAA equalisation

Quoted from Audiogon
"- Position “high” for records produced before 1965 or to improve the performance of somewhat “darker” sounding cartridges at higher frequencies. This position provides +3dB equalization as from 5kHz and +6dB as from 10kHz.

- Position “low” for all other records"
Not sure what Low does exactly yet.

Also all i could find from audiogon
MC-Input Impedance Range: < 100 Ohm to 50kOhm
MM-Input Capacity: 100pF
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) @ 1kHz: 0.01%
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MC: >72dB
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MM: >85dB
Max. Input Voltage for MC-cartridges (theoretical value): 1200mV @ <1% THD
High Performance, Professional Type Step-Up Transformers.

Information is rather sparse on the net about it. But my ears did the talking and it did indeed sound pretty astounding as a whole setup. He offered everything for an absolute killer price even without the pre.

The person i bought it off got it new from a local dealer, so I might wonder into the store to try to find out some more about the phono pre.

 

Congratulations Falcor, i wish you many many years of vinyl enjoyment!!

 

Thanks Chris =) I think one day I will also build a Lenco l75. When I move into a place where i can set up a small workshop again =)

 

Falcor, I am tempted to rip off your setup. I've been using a Technics 1200 Mk2 for a while, but feeling the itch to upgrade to something else. It's a great TT without a doubt and an excellent place to start if you're on a budget. I know plenty of people who still have them as their main (or even only) turntable in very high end setups, ranging from completely stock to replaced tonearm/feet/etc.

 

Alright, I just got a Schiit Mani a few days ago and it should be here this week. Dad's got an old Technics turntable with an Audio-Technica cartridge from the early 90's. Should I get him a new cartridge as well, and what are good options near or under $100?

 

I'd say give it a listen and see how it sounds. Probably isn't a cartridge that's going to blow your face off with how amazing it sounds, but if you feel it's lacking, I'd definitely give something Grado a consideration. The lower end Grado cartridges won't break the bank and sound really pleasant.

I have a Grado on my 1200 MK2 and love it.

 

Alrighty, now, I haven't listened to vinyl since I was about 6, so guess I'll look out for any noticable badness rather than anything in particular. Thanks!

 

Yeah, that's what I meant really, was to look out for noticable badness rather than nitpicking at things that aren't really issues Good luck and enjoy some vinyl!

edit: Definitely post about it when you get the Mani, i've been wondering about them, even though I've just been re-purposing an old E-MU 1616 as a phono preamp