Capacitors

Discussion in 'DIY' started by purr1n, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The amp is still under development. Craig has all these ideas and I am not going to stop him even though trying out all these ideas will delay the amp. He's going to retire soon and this amp is kind of his last testament of 40-50 years of experience. It's quite possible that some of these ideas will go nowhere or prove to have an insufficient effect given their extra cost.

    When this amp got off the ground, I told Craig I was going to source some capacitors for the interstage. This wasn't something EC really did in the past. Craig would pick a cap or two that had a good reputation at the right price and just go with it. I mean, both of us aren't really capacitor or tube rolling kind of dudes if you know what I mean.

    Anyway, I bought a pair of super expensive Jupiter copper foil paper & wax caps for the interstage and hooked them up to the prototype. The amp sounded good, and I was like, bah screw it, those caps can't be that good. Let's go with less expensive caps that are decent. The cool thing about two people working together on a project is that one person will tend to push the other person when that person gets lazy. We had a bunch of different kinds of caps, and Craig suggested that we just try them. We hooked up alligator clips underneath the amp so we could swap.

    What we found surprised us. Now, this is very much a case of ATM (Audiophile Tweakers Myopia), but the differences were certainly there.

    20170311_115416.jpg

    From left to right: cheapo film cap, Audyn Copper Cap, Audyn Reference, Mystery (looks like a Dayton without markings), Jupiter Copper Foil Paper+Wax, Jantzen Superior.

    In the end, the Jupiter caps won, by far. The Jantzen Superior came in second, having a similar tone, but not being quite as good in terms of technicalities (clarity, microdynamics, and staging). The Audyn Reference (white) was nice, but was too bright (I like this cap for speakers). The yellow and and cheapo caps were actually quite good considering how little they cost, but they sounded grainy and would have been fatiguing. The Audyn Copper wasn't too bad, but muddy - too organic.

    The Jupiter turned out to be the most transparent cap, with a small dose of an organic full-bodied presentation which did not get in the way. It was by far the most musical, the most involving, reproducing microdynamic and staging nuances that the others were not capable of. We are not sure if we will offer the Jupiter as a $60-70 upgrade for to the Jantzen Superior, or just roll in the costs into the final price for the best possible product. Note that we would just pass on the costs of the Jupiter caps instead of charging x3 for it.
     
  2. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    +1 for the Jupiter Copper Foils Paper+Wax caps; I'm using them in my DG300b. Excellent cap.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Right? They are crazy good. Honestly, I'd use this over run-of-the mill interstage transformers.
     
  4. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    Crazy good. The other 'tweak' I added that was a noticeable improvement was using Path Audio resistors in my LPAD for headphone out. I ran mills and Ohmite Audio Gold; both good - but the Paths really stood out for clarify and timing (it made the bit of phase smear you get with Mills / Ohmite stand out).
     
  5. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I know pricing hasn't been determined yet but will there be an introductory price or just a set price? I'm smitten by the ZD and am planning on putting down a deposit but if there is no rush I can wait for user impressions before plunking down my money.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That's one idea being floated and is consistent with what EC has done in the past.
     
  7. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Thanks. *note to self, don't buy anything.
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I had those Jupiters in my S7...Until they started leaking wax everywhere and added noise to the signal. I swapped them out for the Audyn true coppers and prefer the Audyns. Sounds more full bodied and clear. Jupiters were a bit more laid back and grey or hazy sounding, but still very good overall. Maybe a specific amp synergy thing, or just my tastes. Sorry for turning this into a cap thread!

    I do hope I get to hear and possibly own one of these.
     
  9. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    I've heard of similar experiences with the Jupiters, namely they sound excellent out of the box, but tend to degrade over time.
     
  10. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    @Hands good point on those wax caps, don't think they are in my Uber 7.
    btw, what color and size knob do you recommend as being most excellent for an EC amp of this pedigree?
    :D
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Soem
    Something for us to keep in mind if we end up using them. Mount them away from any heat sources (HF heater amps) or keep heat sources far away.
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I'm guessing not all wax caps are going to leak like mine did. Maybe I got a bad pair too.

    I vote either a big, thick, black bus steering wheel, or a big ol' dildo.

    Yeah, mine were pretty close-ish to the driver tube and the heatsinks. It's possible the 6BX7 I used post-voltage regulator mod got hotter than the 6SN7. Not sure. (Running the 6BX7 is another story and ended up not working well with the amp after many months.)
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    When and where did you get the Jupiter caps? Were they the 600V copper foil paper? Not the other kinds? We are currently looking at tin foil paper in oil. Aluminum might work too. Moth used to get these tin foil paper in oil caps from a local OEM. We just tried them. They are even better than the Jupiter caps, and at that time cost about $1. Craig tried to get OEM pricing from Jupiter, but they were kinda like no. The capacitor stuff is super scammy, like some other audiophile products.
     
  14. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Looks pretty good. I think he gives the V-caps too much credit. The V-caps sounded like they simplified music in terms of microdynamics and nuance. I am not a big fan of their sound. Too modern hi-fi-ish.

    All these caps are a terrible joke. Probably costs a few dollars at most from the OEMs.
     
  16. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    I didn't know "plankton" was a widely used term in this context.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I stole plankton from Mr. Lampi. I liked the term because too many people get confused between detail and micro-detail / plankton.
     
  18. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Slightly O/T, but I found the Jantzen Superiors to do really well in speaker crossovers - haven't tried the Jupiters, but the Jantzens bested V-Cap TFTFs, Clarity Cap MRs, and SoniCaps in my system.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    All the Clarity Caps I've tried sounded like ass. You don't want to try Jupiters in speaker crossovers because at those values, they cost $400. It's stupid - it's a scam. The Jantzen Superiors are really nice were used in the last few Balancing Acts. The white Audyns are also good for speakers - they have more of a transparent neutral sound.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    A few months ago, from Soniccraft I think? Copper foil, 600v, latest model.
     

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