Geek Wave final(?) development discussion - aka "please lord let it ship!"

Discussion in 'Product Announcements' started by mscott58, Oct 26, 2017.

?

When will the Geek Wave ship by?

  1. January 2018

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. April 2018

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  3. July 2018

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  4. October 2018

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
  5. Sometime in 2019

    13 vote(s)
    9.3%
  6. Who the heck knows - I've given up hope

    24 vote(s)
    17.1%
  7. What's the Geek Wave again?

    56 vote(s)
    40.0%
  8. Never

    41 vote(s)
    29.3%
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  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
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    My understanding is that there are quite a bit of folks that put money into the Geek Wave and have not received product. Because of this, people are upset. This is clearly visible in LH's own forum:

    http://lhlabs.com/forum/c/products/geek-wave/

    @LHCommSquad please point out the blatantly false statements, misinformation and other things, and provide evidence that support your position.

    Furthermore, you are more than welcome to provide updates to product status and hopeful resolution.

    EDIT: @LHCommSquad I do not have a horse in this race at all, but when is the Geek Wave expected to ship? The answer to this question would provide IMO quite a bit of signal. The fulfillment of it would provide even more signal.
     
  2. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    This was all provided in the very first response to Thad, post 45, page 3. He also responded that I was a "marketing man" who "waffled". A) I don't market LH B) nothing was "waffled" on. Then he continued on in a derogatory, flame-posting fashion. It's all there on page 3.

    I have nothing more to add about this or his decision to hijack the thread with veiled/blatant insults towards backers or myself. You guys need to decide what type of community/thread you want to have.

    When we have that information, we'll announce it publicly via IGG.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  3. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    That’s not how it works. We don’t delete posts.
     
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    You are openly posting updates on a product from the company you work with, which IMO is marketing on behalf of LH: You are rising awareness on the brand and product.

    You are "waffling" because you are saying boards are in and things are moving along, but you are not providing a delivery date.

    I don't think folks are insulting backers or you. In fact, there are backers in this thread which have expressed their dissatisfaction with the lack of execution and delivery of this product. If you are only doing your job in keeping people aware that they have not been forgotten, that's great. I (and others) recognize it's not an easy job given the circumstances.

    The one that doesn't put up with bull shit.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  5. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    MR LH LABS, whoever or whatever you are...

    You need to understand one thing. This is not headfi. I don't know if you or your company contribute financially to this forum (I do, not that that is really relevant), or, if you do, how much, but unlike headfi, however much it is, it does and will not buy you the right to say who can post what here. There is no sponsors hot-line to Jude. Try that with Marv, and, regardless of whether or not he likes your products or supports your projects, I'm confident that you will get a very different response. As you already have done from staff members.

    Let's try that one again in case you missed it: This is not headfi. Do we have to do watch-my-lips, say-after-me stuff? baby talk?

    So understand that you post here at your own risk. Whatever reaction you get: swallow it. I will not suggest that you go elsewhere, because it might be of some use to those who have spent money to receive some information. Or what I, and they, might call drip feed of inconclusive tidbits aka waffle.

    Some of us have a bit of a passion for basic consumer rights and wrongs (whether they are right/wrong in the small print or not) and will express it. Whether we are buyers or not.

    I do have one of your products on the shelf (reached me 2nd-hand) and it is decent. For different reasons, it is one of the things on my shelf that will not be joined by stable mates. But hey, the other company that comes to mind, I could at least pay the money and go home with the box. There's a novel business model, eh?

    Personally.. You don't like me: I don't like you. There we go: it happens. Not significant in either of our lives.
     
  6. Insomnium

    Insomnium New

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    So is there any contingency plan if the deal fails to materialize? Given how long Larry hs been sourcing for the battery and screen, are we expecting further delay if he insists on acquiring only that specific type for those components?
     
  7. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    As I understand it there is no contingency; that's the nature of crowdfunding + the way IGG runs things. Marv has written about this elsewhere on the site.
    I would have gotten a refund if I could (I did try writing to IGG), but the request was denied and so I'm stuck waiting.
     
  8. Insomnium

    Insomnium New

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    I was referring to the battery and screen issue in my question actually. Having owned both version of Geek Out, I have faith that the Wave will come out fine in the end, it just the matter of whether Larry will compromise in certain things to get it out soon or will he be stubborn and insist on getting the specific components despite the low chance of actual getting it.
     
  9. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    So many false conclusions, accusations, misplaced aggression, misplaced energy, and incoherency in this, but you're right: not worth it. You're now on "ignore". Perhaps the other thread members will continue to value your posts; I won't. Have a nice day. :)

    Here's the latest update!

    https://support.lhlabs.com/solution...update-part-2-board-tech-achievements-3-12-18
     
  10. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Is the above a typo? People are already needing and using way more storage than that on DAPs- using 400MB MicroSDXC cards to supplement any on-board storage. Do you intend to support 512MB SD cards?
     
  11. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    It says 64GB-256GB. Full size SD cards, in SDXC capacities, are massive. 512GB are easily purchased. Two slots = 1024GB or 1TB.
     
  12. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Thanks! Going the blame the fact that I'm running a fever rather than just being a massive dumbass. Ahem.
     
  13. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    I am quite undecided - Is it actually better or worse to receive any updates about Geek Wave at this point?

    I see the poll in this thread providing the most significant value so far. :)
     
  14. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    So, since about 2 people brought up points/questions, let's address them:

    1. LH does not contribute money to Head-Fi or SBAF in any way, shape or form to my complete knowledge and understanding, and this has never been discussed as a current "thing" or a future "thing". To my understanding there was a "thing" with Jude and Gavin, and whatever sponsorship LH tried to have on Head-Fi fizzled out. We have no plans to ever try sponsorship on HF (again) or SBAF to the best of my knowledge and understanding.

    2. "I' do not "waffle". I am a third party, contracted by LH Labs as a 1099 employee in a completely different state, who provides whatever information to the general public that the head office provides me and instructs me to state. That is "who/whatever" I am. If you have any issue with lack of dates, changing information, lack of updates, etc. I advise you take it up with the head office through a Freshdesk ticket or on IGG or through our Freshdesk forum. Or you can politely request I pass your comments regarding the head office to that office, and I'll be happy to do that.

    3. I am here purely as a favor to this community, because I was a member of this community, LONG before I ever even DREAMED of being employed by LH Labs. "That" is "who I/whatever" I am am. This information is readily available in my posting history for anyone who had ever really cared to know about "who/whatever" I was/am/why I'm here. If no one wants updates, that's fine. If I am to continue posting updates, I only ask that you not attack me personally. If that's too much to ask, then I'm in the wrong thread as the wrong entity and we can go back to only posting on LH owned channels. Again, that's a community decision you'll have to make.

    4. I do not "market" Wave, and response in this thread is not a "marketing" exercise. We've already sold the merchandise. We already received backers' money. We don't need to "market" (ie, drum up business or product awareness) here at SBAF because everyone here most likely already knows what the Wave/LH is. We are here simply as a) a favor to the community because of the extended history with LH Labs this community has had and b) because I was already a member.

    IGG requires us to make updates regarding the project status for backers. Other people can peek in if they want, but the target audience, under IGG terms and conditions, are the backers who we don't need to market to, because we already received their money. 3/4 of you probably will a) never buy the Wave and b) hate LH/want nothing to do with us.

    The other 25% of you probably want updates on merchandise you've already purchased. So if anyone has any questions over "do I think you'll buy it" (already been asked)....here's the answer: I don't care either way. You do you. It's just an audio player. It's a luxury, boutique, very niche item that no one "needs". Buy it if it ever comes out on the market, or don't, and move on with your life to something that matters. Move on to something that makes you happy instead of wallowing in or creating negative discussion over a product you hate and would never buy, or a company you hate and find untrustworthy, and would never buy from.

    "Marketing" to SBAF the Wave would be a futile exercise, a waste of time, and completely 100% something that I would never have any interest in attempting.

    And honestly, if you hate us that much in the first place, based on my conversations with Larry over certain individuals in various communities who harass us and legitimate customers, and badmouth us every chance they get, I think I speak for LH when I say we honestly don't want you as a customer, and we prefer you shop elsewhere that would be a better fit for you.


    5. Head-Fi has a direct sponsorship line to Jude? News to me. LH never asked, and we never cared in my tenure here. We also never asked or cared about a direct hotline to any mods or owners at SBAF. Any assumptions to the contrary are own-world fantasies that were never implied, indicated, or stated by LH or me.

    Thanks for reading. If anyone has any legitimate questions over the Wave campaign, I'll be happy to answer them as best I can, with the knowledge I have, from the people who give me the answers, when I get those answers or have the time to respond to said questions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  15. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    • Company takes millions of dollars in crowdfunding from backers
    • Company fails to deliver on majority of projects over 4+ years, communicates badly throughout
    • Company then claims to be doing people a "favour" when company decides to finally engage publicly (if somewhat abrasively)
    imho, it's not unreasonable for your backers/customers to expect a bit of contrition along with the (hopefully) improved communications (which are appreciated). Getting all cocky with people at this point might not be the best approach, imho.

    ps. I'm an LH Labs "customer" (and probably already on that blacklist of yours).
     
  16. marflao

    marflao Acquaintance

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    Jarek,

    guess most guys here know that you do your best to provide us the "wanted " questions answered.
    But the dilemma is that there is a bottleneck called Larry who doesn´t provide the answers to us.

    Regarding the current "update" - as i already mentioned to you somewhere else - the first part of the current update was something we already knew when we backed the first Wave perks almost 4 (f o u r!!!) years ago. Fast forward to 2018 and the bloody design phase still hasn´t been accomplished plus the vendor selection/alignment/negotiation process is still ongoing. Hence there is no end in sight especially with the lousy project management LHL has proofed us so far.

    And I really don´t get it that the design hasn´t been done yet. It´s like a never-ending story. And even he would come up with a "brandnew DAC IC, none current DAP on the market has it", it´s just another excuse and try to calm us down.

    btw....your point 4 mentioning the required IGG updated is really a slap in our face.
    They were mostly only shared when a big shitstorm from us backers were directed towards LHL´s (Larry´s) submarine moves.

    And honestly IGG does not really care at all if you/LHL provide us an update or not. Since the campaign is already in demand status they refer us to get in touch with the campaigner directly (not only for refund topics).
    "Funny" thing is that they are even not aware of who the campaigner is. Although the Mr. Fish has left loooonnnng time ago they mentioned him to me. So far to IGG being a great help for us backers.

    Bottomline is there is absolutely no clear visibility when things will be shipped because Larry doesn´t have a clue when the above open topics will be closed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  17. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Jarek, please keep in mind this is a natural human reaction when anyone feels like they have been cheated. You shouldn't be upset at random users that are just venting their frustation, be upset with LHLabs since it's their own dowing that brought us to this situation.
    Also you keep ingoring the most important aspect, people want some actual information like delivery dates. Maybe some are pushing it just because they'r angry but most want to see the product they payed so much for so long ago. Some actual delivery dates would clear the air and untill we get those I for one don't believe any of your updates since we've been lied to so many times before. If you want the community to trust you have to earn it first, don't just make demands.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  18. marflao

    marflao Acquaintance

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    Problem is that Jarek is in a tricky situation: he can´t do it right ;-)
    If he provides shipping dates it´s already clear that they won´t be achieved since LHL is even not capable of accomplishing a one week deadline (e. g. shipping of the Wave boards from one LHL department to the other).
     
  19. muse

    muse Facebook Friend

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    To my understanding, crowdsourcing and crowdfunding is a multifaceted concept. It shouldn't just apply whenever the project team wishes to solicit more $ from prospective backers. Unfortunately, at this point in time, this is exactly the case.

    What did Larry and co. do to address the growing concerns years back, that LHLabs was treading dangerous territory by promising a huge deal and committing to literally 100+ (someone please do the math) permutations of the Wave and other Geek products? I'm not sure if you're aware but the likes of Gavin and Casey did nothing except add more fuel to the hype train. A gung-ho attitude looks cool when you finally pull off something great. But when you don't, you end up looking absolutely pathetic.

    There were urgent calls for LHL to pull the f'ing brakes on the Wave campaign and just settle down. These calls were completely IGNORED, whilst Larry and co. continued to push out waves and waves (pun intended) of add-ons.

    The only reason why LHL has not been subject to more severe legal ramifications is that the veneer of Indiegogo's lax policy is there to protect it.

    You must understand that certain people forked out in excess of $1k on a product, which in all likelihood will still not see completion half a decade later. We have seen countless updates of prototypes, fancy stuff, and Larry's trips all around the world. What came out of that? Nothing. You can list a hundred perfectly reasonable reasons for hiccups but you cannot expect that to hold up against delays of this magnitude.

    I don't wish to be harsh because you are putting a good deal of effort into this. But to be brutally honest, I'd wager most people don't give a shit if you declare THD or SNR measurements that enter into the Guinness Book of World Records. I can declare ownership of a 15 inch schlong all I want but it only matters if I can prove that it exists.
     
  20. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    Jarek, you're just the messenger, and that puts you in a tough spot. I actually do agree with you that Thad was basically stirring the pot (and with little reason to). I'm sorry that you got riled by it.
    If I may: perhaps the wiser option for you in the immediate term is to not react so much, as it's not doing favours for your/LHLabs' reputation at this stage. I appreciate getting updates; right now it's better than nothing.
     
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