Big Poppa's Auditioning and Tweaking Skills

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by BIG POPPA, Mar 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    What I have learned over the years is to not rely upon others declarations about the efficacy of tweaks and mods, but if my curiosity is sufficient to want to try them for myself, then I'll implement them in my system and then decide.

    And there is a complimentary relationship with regards to ALL of the pieces in a system and the tweaks that have been implemented, or not.

    The cumulative effect of many tweaks is more than just additive and when the entire system, as I put, 'has been tweaked to get out of its own way', then these tweaks can make a substantially greater impact then what would be expected.

    But it does take diligence and repeated experiments to 'break thru' some of the 'bottle necks' (which I call Choke Points - CP's) in order to be able to hear whether these tweaks make any difference let alone an improvement in your (or any) system.
    Most give up after trying a few times with this or that.

    Indeed, it took me ≈12 different variations of cables and connectors etc. before I learned what did and didn't make any noticeable changes.
    And when I did break thru a major CP, it became MUCH easier to hear changes and determine if they were 'better' or not.
    After that, the various tweaks began to make the SQ substantially 'better', not in a hit you over the head way with differences as each was implemented, but the cumulative net effect was well worth all the effort and motivated me to continue to this very day.
    And I must say I find myself breaking out in laughter after an orchestral piece finishes and the hall resonances morph as the final crescendo dissipates away.

    IOW there is no single magic bullet for everyone, but there are many ways to improve the SQ of any system, IF you are willing to pursue, for yourself, what those who have previously jumped down these various rabbit holes have reported of their results.
    But just because the initial trials don't result in improvements, doesn't mean they ALL are 'snake oil', but you do have to work at it and not give up in order to find out what does and does not work for you in your system.

    And since this is a hobby for me, I can 'play' with all of this and determine what makes my system sound better, based upon my desires and degree of calibration, regardless of what anyone else's opinion might be.

    This is a long winded way of saying that Gil and I and others, are well versed and practiced at knowing how to apply various tweaks in order to hear more INTO the music vs just listening to the music.

    These goals may not be yours and so YMMV.

    JJ
     
  2. BIG POPPA

    BIG POPPA SON OF BIG D

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Seattle
    ok, all metal is not created equal. Hence the periodic table. Copper, gold, silver, rhodium, etc. All have their own distinct sound. With solid state gear, it can sound a bit sterile, bright , just meh. Tube gear can be too warm , fuzzy, way too syrupy. Too much of a good thing. GEC A1834 (6as7) This is a great example of syrupy goodness. With 1000's of hours listening I have found out gold can sound warm, and musical. soundstage is a little wide compared to silver which the soundstage is tall compared to the gold, the sound is fast , clear and very focused. So with solid state gear, i would start with auditioning cables with copper wire(cryo'd is my preference) gold connectors. Silver cables and wire with some solid state gear may make you want to claw your ears. With tube gear cables with silver connectors will help tame the over syrupyness of the tubes. You with see silver plated with rhodium . rhodium makes the silver sound a bit more smoother. These examples are made to give a starting point. you can use silver with solid state / gold with tubes, just be aware . Everything in your rig matters. It starts at the wall, ends at your ears. Just a few thoughts here.
     
  3. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Australia
    Far better to have golden ears than gold cables. Maybe that's part of what tweaking is all about: Learning to listen.
     
  4. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    I have come to see it as learning to listen is a process that can result in getting Calibrated, where you learn what to listen for as well as determine for yourself what is better, all based upon what your specific desires are and what you consider to be 'better'.

    But if you have 'golden ears' and get suitably calibrated, golden cables will be appreciated for what they are.
    Assuming there is a desire to pursue just where this will or can lead you.

    JJ
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  5. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Australia
    Golden cable appreciation: A function of preferences, priorities, pocket depth and prejudices

    An observation, not a comment on cable philosophy
     
  6. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,754
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    EU
    I don't know where to start...

    For a medium amount of gain, tubes are extremely linear and "uncolored", and work nicely as voltage amplifiers. AFAIK, the "warm, syrupy" character, comes from the circuit topology, output impedance, lack of negative feedback, transformers, caps, etc, more than from the tubes themselves. Tubes are great for high impedance transducers, that's why almost everyone drives their Sennheiser (300 ohms) headphones or single driver speakers (usually higher than 8 ohms) with tube amps.

    Some other transducers, like power hungry planar headphones (usually under 100 ohms impedance and low sensitivity) or multi driver passive speakers (usually under 4 ohms, and in some cases dropping under 2 ohms) work nicely with solid state amplifiers, because they don't have problems delivering current (this is where tube amps have problems). Solid state amps aren't cold and clinical by default, again, AFAIK, the circuit topology, parts and interaction with the transducer are more important, you should hear a solid state, class A/B, zero feedback, fully discrete, fully balanced, DC coupled amplifier, like the Ayre ones, for example, you might be surprised.

    I do think that cables make a difference, but, AFAIK, the cable's inductance, capacitance and geometry are also important, I do not buy the "silver sounds cold, copper sounds warm" argument.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  7. likearake

    likearake Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm confused, does swapping cables count as metallurgical tweaking?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  8. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    Thanks for the reply! I admit I'm somewhat of a skeptic, but that could be chalked up to my not having heard your gear yet. Previous experience with silver v. copper interconnects and cables were hard to call, but that could have been due to my lacking good upstream gear at the time or just not knowing how to listen; this was at the "peak" of my audio obsession a few years back, mind— not that I spent more on audio then, quite the opposite given I was in high school/college at the time, but I had quite a bit of interconnect nervosa and was quite a bit more gullible, willing to believe anything with 1000+ posts over on HF.

    I'll let people who aren't opposite your hemisphere share their thoughts when they do get to A/B your mods against stock, which I am looking forward to. I'm thinking swapping metals out might a hair more difference when done inside upstream gear like DACs than they would transducers, but that's just me talking out of my bum. My pragmatic side is telling me that good quality copper should be enough to eke out every last bit of performance out of whatever components you might find in a DAC, but I'll happily eat my words if others can corroborate those claims.
     
  9. BIG POPPA

    BIG POPPA SON OF BIG D

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Seattle
    Lol, system is an over achieving sweet sounding rig. Saying that. I listen alot 3-4 hours everyday. I log some hours.
    So everyone get to a point where they need something new to keep it going. Still listen everyday. It is cool to try to figure out the next piece of gear.
     
  10. bengo

    bengo Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Divisive Kingdom
    Home Page:
    Not clear what "over achieving" means. You should sell your solid gold cables and get a better DAC.
     
  11. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    So you don't actually know anything about metal, then. hey ho, never mind: Audioquest loves you.
     
  12. BIG POPPA

    BIG POPPA SON OF BIG D

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Seattle
    Audioquest is not my cup of tea. Do enjoy the furutech qls4 with the new Rhodium connectors. Do like my cable's with the Oyaide 004's 10awg copper power cables I enjoy immensely. My usb cables are gold.... Lol. Am not an arm chair quarter back. Do spend my money. And get knowledge from experience.
     
  13. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    There's only one Gil in the Seattle area

    7C805D33-80F2-4364-AA7A-3F310AC4FA70.jpeg
     
  14. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    390
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    CA
    OK so we are not questioning your experience, or knowledge. Especially when JJ and Bob are vouching for you.
    But but but you do realize people here ain't high school students sitting in 1st period AP chemistry right?

    We treasure knowledge and experience here, but we are not beggars either.
     
  15. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NOVA
    Home Page:
    I mean, metallurgy is one part of it, sure. but if we're just talking about 1m of wire between some connectors there's potentially more to it, if you're into esoteric stuff like cable geometry, dielectric material, shielding, cryo, burn-in technique, etc., you're kinda missing the forest for the trees here. what are you bringing to the table that Duster on AA hasn't already covered? Just saying "different metals sound different" isn't convincing, no matter what your system is.

    "Do spend my money." sounds positively BigD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  16. BIG POPPA

    BIG POPPA SON OF BIG D

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Seattle
    Well the awesome thing is we have meets in Seattle all the time. We do all kinds of things here. And listening to gear, changing this and that, then listening again. We are pretty active with this hobby in-between meets. We do not sit on the sidelines waiting for things to happen.
    I got a call was asked do you have a synergistic black receptacle on your isolation transformer with a rhodium plug , plugged in? And I said yes
     
  17. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    In the wind, so to speak
    Home Page:
    We need more beat poetry here. Thank you, Poppa Large.
     
  18. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Australia
    Is the wiring in your amps gold as well? Component leads? Solder?
     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    There are parasitics and dielectrics on PCBs. Grounding and isolation are considerations. If there is a problem there, IMO one needs to bark at the right tree.

    Not saying crap cables that readily oxidize or act as suboptimal conductors are not problems. But in general, I feel cables may be easier problems to tackle.

    One could go down the path of trying everything. But solid theory may help narrowing down the bunch of things that one should try in a life time and with some degree of confidence and success.

    EDIT: Even if one wants to try everything, one owns it to oneself to try to understand the theory. Because that IS part of trying everything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  20. BIG POPPA

    BIG POPPA SON OF BIG D

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Seattle
    I'm a Tube guy. Gold cables, not at the moment. Big fan of cryo'd copper and Rhodium. On Mpx3 have both gold and Rhodium connectors. Rhodium IEC and synergistic Black fuse.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page