Focal Elear and Utopia

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by SingSing, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I completely agree about everything you all are saying about customer service and warranty. I guess all this discussion was hashed out ad nauseum on HF, and I got really tired of it. That shouldn’t affect people hashing it all out here too.

    The build quality issues is a concern, especially if purchasing out of warranty. That is a serious issue. Given what I know of focal, I would always recommend buying it with a warranty. My unscientific poll on headfi shows a 20% failure rate of the Utopia.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  2. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Ugh, just having bought a Clear last week(from a dealer though) is making me a bit antsy. It's probably likely that they used the exact same headband design between the Clear and Elear i guess. Absolutely love the sound of these though...

    I wonder if i can buy extra warranty, maybe that is a smart play with these.
     
  3. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @AllanMarcus I almost never go on HF nowadays, so I missed the entirety of the hash there. Sorry if I was brusque, I just hate seeing big brands act like douchebags. Hope you're feeling better now though!

    Also, @Riotvan, pretty sure you're talking Apple Care there, man :))
     
  4. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Well Applecare is bs in my country. They give 1 year warranty on their products. But by law we have 2 years here. And they will honor it if you make a scene.
    As for Focal they give two as well but i mean i would feel better with 3 or 5 years.
     
  5. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    FWIW I bought my Elear used in March, not that long ago, but I haven't had any issues yet, and they've had a lot of use.

    I hope I didn't just jinx myself...
     
  6. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Yeah we will see, i'm usually careful with stuff. The Clears sure persuade you to handle with care.
     
  7. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Iirc replacement headband for the clear is 800$.

    You can buy yourself an AFO with that money ...
     
  8. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    So basically the cost of what a used mint unit goes for?
     
  9. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Holy shit Margarita!
    I knew they were cunts, but this is too much even for them.
    Sometimes I wonder if Focal is pronounced "f**k-all" and not "Foc-al".
    They should trademark the Fuckall pronunciation before Monoprice launches their new Distopia, Dull and Dull Unprofessional semi french headphones...hurry up! :D

    Honestly, one can do much better buying an aftermarket cable for a fraction of the price, one that is not only prettier but also better built and probably better sounding. Not "cheap" per se, but for 200-300$ one can buy an OCC copper cable for the Utopia (I believe Forza Audioworks sells for that price, more or less)...or even DIY one for a fraction of the price if you already have the tools/soldering skills...1100$ for the cable that everyone replaces with an aftermarket one is just nuts.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    @AllanMarcus - I also saw a disturbing trend on head-fi regarding Utopia failures. Mine have been fine so far, but I'll write that when I saw that they removed the coil former to reduce weight, it had me cringing. That doesn't leave much left structurally to keep the coil formed, and the gap between the coil and magnet is pseudo precision to get right. Just my personal theory/curiosity, that this has contributed to the failure rates.
     
  11. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I have a pair of at least 20 year old Grado’s. The ear pads have disintegrated. They still work fine. Treble piercing still. Think I paid $80. ($125 adjusted for inflation) Focal can’t make a reliable headphone for $3200? Horse pucky.
     
  12. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    If the cable is $1,100 does that mean that the phones themselves are $2,900?
     
  13. Lurker

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    Miniature transducers almost exclusively use formerless coils except maybe some Japanese manufacturers and Beyerdynamic.
    What makes the Focal unique is not that the coil is formerless but rather that the coil only consists of one single layer.
    Two layers are already uncommon. An HD 800 for example has 3 layers of windings.
    The fact that the coil on the Focals is also 5 mm high probably doesn't help with durability.
    Not sure if air drafts that occur when handling the headphone are enough to make the coil knock against the pole piece. Could also be heating up/cooling down that makes the coil fall apart or warp although I'm sure that Focal uses some excellent adhesives/lacquers. Nontheless it is easily the most fragile component of the entire headphone.

    Also i hope that 1k for the cable is a joke. That would be the cost of the entire Elear which uses the same cable except for the lemo plugs which are 50€ total. Focal must really hate second hand buyers.
     
  14. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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  15. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    Nope, you can't price something like that. Try pricing a car by purchasing every individual part.

    We have not had the time to evaluate how long units will last for the Utopia. We don;'t know what the failure rate was for the Grado you purchased; all we know is that one unit lasted 20 years. It's quite possible that many many utopia units will last 20 years.
     
  16. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    True. Totally anecdotal. But that’s all we have with no data to analyze. Be interesting if we could find out the actual failure rate.
    I will leave this thread with this. Focal will not be getting my business.
     
  17. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    @Lurker - Thanks, I learn something new every day. That was an informative post.

    p.s. regarding "What makes the Focal unique is not that the coil is formerless but rather that the coil only consists of one single layer." Yes, it makes me cringe. I don't see how such a large coil like this can be structurally sound, but this is just my gut instinct writing. I defer to those with more knowledge in this area, but it looks like a point of probable failure to my old eyes.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  18. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I went looking for pics for a Focal voice coil vs. Sennheiser voice coil but could find none. My understanding is basically at this level:

    https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-headphone-dynamic-drivers-work

    So I am trying to get a handle on what you are referencing exactly with windings...
     
  19. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    Um, that is pretty close to how it's pronounced in French. Seriously, Google it.
     
  20. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    This is bad.
    Abyss has a transferrable one year,
    And a " one time" transferrable 3yr warranty that I didn't even know when I sold my Diana.

    Really bad when competition like HifiMan does.

    Not really...
    Sounds like a ploy to get your money.


    WOW, I didn't realize it was that long.
    That's at least double the length of most coils (from my own experience).

    Based on what has just been stated, I would take precaution to not have the driver make excursion too much.

    I heard audible pop sound of a Focal driver when testing low frequency, which I read Marvey noted in a review as well (Not the Utopia).

    If the driver is pushed to pop, it can cause a non-linear angle of excursion,
    or excessive electromagnetic force applied to the coil.
    Either way I can envisualize possible physical harm to coil.

    I would take most caution when insertion of Headphones to amp (at zero volume so no pop),
    and not leave Headphones plugged in when turning unit on or off.

    To me,
    The cable really isnt worth more than say $80, US.
    The copper seems good quality (probably OCC) and is a thick guage, and has no painted coating on the strands,
    So its super easy to solder.

    But there is absolutely NO type of (litz) winding or braiding at all(!),
    just paralleled insulated wires inside a big rubber type cable.

    The design is very much like an AC lamp cord.
    In fact, if I didn't know better I would think this was some type AC lamp cable.

    The only saving grace was the thick guage of the cable...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018

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