Yggdrasil Refined - New Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 (Yggdrasil A2) Sound Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by drgumbybrain, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    this sentence alone is cause for a Like here on SBAF.
    do it for your own pleasure. always.
    and that another Yggdrasil A2 (Yggdrasil A2) wins the day.
     
  2. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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  3. Don Quichotte

    Don Quichotte New

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    So, after the A2 leapfrogged over the A1 did you:
    a) still perceive the A1 as more airy and with better sense of space (but other qualities developed in the A2 such as smoothness offset this initial preference for A1), or
    b) the A2 caught A1 from behind in these areas?
     
  4. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    The answer is B, and I think I learned something in the process.

    Prior to comparing the A1 and A2 head-to-head, I don’t think I fully appreciated the difference between “black background” and some degree of rolloff in the highs. The context I remember first encountering “black background” descriptions with regard to DACs was NOS DACs, and it’s definitely something I thought I heard in my NOS DACs. (With amps, I thought “black background” was much more straightforward, related to noise floor and hiss.)

    Despite the above, I ultimately had my Master 7 set on OS mode. To me, NOS was blacker but also came with a roll-off that limited that sense of air, which I think of as “hearing the room” in a good studio recording (a lot of great Van Morrison ‘70s stuff has this, such as “You Know What They’re Writing About / It’s All in the Game”).

    After the A2 has warmed up for a few days, I realized that the A2 has every bit as much detail in the highs, “hearing the studio,” reverb trails, etc. as the A1. Listening to the same segments of tracks (the aforementioned Van one among them), it was all there, but it was coming from a “blacker background,” which I came to understand more as describing a greater degree of focus and location in three-dimensional space, rather than a broader “wash” of air, if that makes sense.

    Essentially, I think I learned what actual “black background” is by doing the A1 versus A2 comparison, which alone made having both on hand to compare a worthwhile experience, IMO.
     
  5. Don Quichotte

    Don Quichotte New

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    Thanks a lot! And yes, it's very nice for me too when I get the feeling that I have learned something new in terms of auditory ( / "audiophile") perception, leading to a better appreciation of what a piece of music / recording / piece of gear is bringing to the table!
     
  6. Merc

    Merc New

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    The Schitt hits the fan July 12th ,...looking forward to it
     
  7. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

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    Yeah, Yggdrasil A1 was not ideal with the Utopia for many recordings. Glad to hear A2 has better synergy.
     
  8. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Yggdrasil A2 is the real deal. Okay no headphones can convey the slam and dynamics of live, and even my horn speakers + sub only sort of do so, but it doesn't sound like that fuzzy crap I was use too from my previous gear. Sounds like music, lively, energetic, and smooth. I'm not so great with the descriptions, but absolutely if you have A1, the upgrade to A2 is worth it.
     
  9. Faust

    Faust New

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    Your observation got me to thinking about why ladder dacs take so long to stabilize. Google revealed a number of posts, however what caught my eye was the following question to Amir accompanied by his illiterate answer:

    "Amir how much warm up time did you give these things? I doubt you subscribe to it but Jason Stoddard mentioned that it needs about 72 hours to stabilize. The Gungnir MB I tried changed sound for about three days. Then it had much subtler changes for a week. (Subjective impressions).
    The first time the machines were powered and running before I arrived. I measured the fully upgraded unit at the end of the meeting which put it at least being on for 3-4 hours.

    The second time they were also on before I arrived so not sure how long. But I say in both cases the units were powered on and warmed up. But not 72 hours.

    If Jason thinks there is a change after 72 hours, I like to see him show the measurements before and after that duration. If there is no change in measurements, then my data stands."

    Amir's ignorance appears to be matched by a resolute stubbornness to learn, hardly suitable for a 'scientific investigator".

    My apologies for opening this can of worms again, however for me this settles the question of how a bad operators erroneous results occurred.
     
  10. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Maybe I'm just cranky today, but why the f**k are we still talking about why Amir sucks. Who gives a shit.
     
  11. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I think Amir has done a lot of harm to the Schiit brand. His stuff gets discussed and parroted a lot on reddit. Now the common refrain over there is that Schiit products don't measure well. So I think it is still relevant to call Amir out on this stuff.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I think Amir has done more harm to the Amir brand and would have done significant damage to the AP brand too had Jude not stepped in.

    Redditorz don't buys GumBies or Yaggies. Okay, maybe some of them got converted from Modi (Reddit favorite) to Topping. But now credible subjective reports of Topping's suckage have arisen from numerous sources. Also Redditorz love measurements and aren't stupid. When three different people get vastly different results from Amir using three different measurement gears on the most basic of measurements (FR, distortion, etc.), it becomes obvious that Amir is borking the measurements, either through incompetence, laziness, or nefarious reasons.
     
  13. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    Having the DAC being on for just 3 hours would explain (some) the discrepancy. If he had any ethics, he would man up & try to measure one that has been continuously turned on, like Schiit recommends instead of "I like to see him show the measurements before and after that duration".

    As if Schiit will bend over backwards to please him on his flawed measuremets at a whim.
     
  14. Richard Depiction

    Richard Depiction New

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    Which measurements would you expect to see change over the power on time?
     
  15. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    I'm going to leave that question to the EEs and folks who have experience measuring, but we have Schiit's own recommendations to warm this DAC up, and many here (and other forums) experiences (and my own), Yggdrasil doesn't sound appealing until warmed up. I also happen to agree now with other's observation, it took 3+ weeks before I heard consistency. That's just another opinion to add to the pile.

    FWIW, I had bought many CD players since the first year they came out, and they all annoyed me. Variations of the same digital repetition, haze, and grating on my nerves. Bifrost was overall better, smoother, less repetitious sounding, but it still had the haze, murky, congested issues. Yggdrasil A2 is the 'finally', "this is what I was looking for" experience. Clear, essentially none of that digital annoying repetition, plus lively, dynamic, and clear. Tonality, the hard instruments like cymbals, violins, piano, sounds like those instruments at a concert.

    BTW I noted you used a pseudo Geisha as your avatar ;)
     
  16. Merc

    Merc New

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    Anyone here use a Empirical Syncro Mesh Reclocker with their Yggdrasil ? I have ordered a Yggdrasil analog 2 back in June with back orders to July 30th , well maybe , Schitt have changed the shipping date twice since I placed my order and that’s ok .
    I will be using a transport with the Yggdrasil and was just curious if anyone have used a Reclocker with their Yggdrasil,.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  17. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    I use 2) Mutec 3+ re-clockers as the last link in my AOIP chain to feed my Yggdrasil A2 via AES.
    They did make a noticeable improvement, but at this level of performance it isn't earth shattering, rather it's a refinement and a greater degree of focus into the music.

    JJ
     
  18. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    More praise for the A2 version of this DAC...

    If you know about those cringe moments listening to complex music reproduced digitally, with many overlapping sounds, and ugh, WTH, the music has turned into a digital fuzzy mess of sounds interfering with each other... stunning how well the A2 version keeps the details separated.

    Live still wins, but it's damn close.
     
  19. gefski

    gefski Facebook Friend

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    7-17-18 system off 3 weeks+ away from home (YggyB ran over 2 mo. before downtime). Turned on today for 24/7 uDO/YggyB processing so the chain can "get back in shape" by 7-28 Seattle meet. Listened a bit. No surprise at all. Sounds like a "good" $200 dac, clean, clear, no painful artifacts at all. Missing is startling true timbre, touch, real & varied bass micro & macro, powerful yet graceful dynamics, spatial relationships that make me follow individual musicians. It'll be back; been there - done this with two Yggys.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It wouldn't hurt to try, but I much preferred the sound from my favorite transports by themselves without stuff in between. This is mostly because I know how my x3 transports sound, their sonic signatures, and prefer their known quantities (for component matching / synergies) rather than change them into something unknown with stuff placed in between. I like to keep variables to a minimum. I did not like Mutec in between BTW.
     

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