Focal Clear

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by The Alchemist, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. StandUp713

    StandUp713 Friend

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    Off topic - I spent way to much time on that onlinetonegenerator.com. Tested my IEMS and was impressed. But found out my hearing stops at 14K. :(

    On topic - I have not herd rattling in my Focal Clears. I will give them a test when I get home.
     
  2. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Professor Van on the case. Yes, this is one of the problems that I am hearing. The other is driver breakup and distortion on lower frequencies at more dynamic passages. I hear the break up first, then the driver hitting the housing or whatever that sound is.

    I will test this out tonight and report back on findings.

    I am going to say, I am not ruling out that this might just be a highly enjoyed loaner (read: abused). Went coast to coast over last 9 moths with several changes in climate, humidity, temperature. If a manufacturer wants to torture test a new headphone - send it on a SBAF loaner tour. (P.S. can looks great condition wise, nice case, doesn't look like something who has been with 30 other gross headphone dudes)
     
  3. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    I am a disgusting guy at home and my headphones have witnessed all of it. I am curious how this loaner Clear looks after traveling so much.

    Something to note, darker headphones tend to be popular choice for multiple reasons. Silver/light color headphones start to show age faster since it is more noticeable. Darker headphones can hide it better.

    Food for thought next time you try an old pair of headphones.
     
  4. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Last night, I finally found the time to conduct some independent research into the loaner clears and the problems I was hearing. Below are the findings.

    First charge : @porkfriedpork has claimed that he can hear a physical banging on lower tones of what he thinks is the driver hitting the housing.

    Verdict: guilty

    I can reproduce this, but it's at pretty high volumes, much loud than I listen to, but Mr Pork is at the extreme end of loud listeners. I got this to happen pretty regularly using Audiocheck's subwoofer kick drum test with tones 40hz and below. Metalic clanging like the driver came loose in the housing and was bouncing all around, like you broke the headphone.

    Second charge: I have claimed that bass sounds very distorted like a cheap woofer being over loaded on a stereo system.

    Verdict: guilty

    This one is easier to reproduce with this loaner set, and I'm willing to bet its extreme use of this particular set of headphones. From a more scientific perspective, using Audiochecks low end sweeps (200hz to 40hz), starting at 80hz and going down to 50hz or so. This didnt sound like a consistent tone, but more like a loose uncontrolled flapping. Oddly, I couldn't make this happen by playing the individual tones in the problem region. Left channel seems worse than right. Listening level roughly 85db or so.

    More subjective and with music (which is what really matters), I could hear this same effect on the following:

    Smashing Pumpkins - Cherub Rock
    20 seconds into the song when heavy distorted guitars kick in.

    Smashing Pumpkins - Today
    Same album, at 1:50 when bass guitar line is more prominent

    Pink Floyd - Time
    2 min on or so when things pick up

    Neil Young - Heart if Gold

    All of the above seems to happen in mid bass region during parts of music with more dynamic range. Volume is what I consider normal, about 85db. Went back and tested all of the above against my hd800 (old and fairly abused) and hd660 (newer). It's more than just sounding different, and more or less made certain songs unlistenable. I can hear it in most genres of music, but rock seems to be the worst offender. Oddly, doesn't seem to be a problem in electronic music (maybe a dynamic range related issue?)

    Vansen is getting this set next, he can see if he can reproduce what he has previously heard.
     
  5. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    You and I seem to hear the same issues consistently, so I’m expecting to discover the same thing. I’ll use the same tracks as a reference.
     
  6. gLer

    gLer New

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    By the sounds of it (pun intended) this loaner has more than had its day. Basically no real point in giving impressions of the Clear based on the loaner at this point, wouldn’t you say?
     
  7. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    I disagree. I’ve spent a large portion of my professional career in sensory evaluation. Calibrating as a community in regards to sound is very important. Some of the best lessons can be learned here when things go wrong. Discussions like these foster this learning and calibration.

    It goes even further than that, though. The vendor that sold this to us (@netforce) has been great to this community and he is willing to stand behind this headphone. I want to make sure that I don’t put any undue burden on him with this headphone.
     
  8. TSAVJason

    TSAVJason MOT: TSAV

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    Yup! You’re messy alright! Hahaha
     
  9. StandUp713

    StandUp713 Friend

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    I did the sub-wooofer test. No rattling, herd them perform fine all the way down to 25hz
     
  10. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I ran the Audiocheck bass shaker at far louder volume than I could possibly listen to. Leaving Magni 3 at "normal", I cranked SYS from 9 o'clock ("normal") to 2-3 o'clock and got it to make buzzing/clicking sounds. I guess this is the "exceeding driver excursion limits" that Marv initially described. The clicking in the left driver was higher pitched than in the right, but the magnitude was about the same. I'm 100% sure I wouldn't hear this listening to music because I'd have already pulled them off my ears with SYS at 12 o'clock for fear of going deaf. The LF bass shaker sweep I could tolerate at those levels.

    I'd have to crank the volume that high to initiate the clicking, but then if I backed off a few o'clocks it would continue for the rest of the sweep.
     
  11. gLer

    gLer New

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    Out of curiosity, has anyone run these tests on the Utopia? We now know Elear/Elex/Clear have this ‘issue’ but what about the big boys?
     
  12. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    ... as indicated in the past two pages of this thread, some members initially started seeing this stuff on Utopia models. Check the loaner thread, too.

    Also, in the experience of @JoshMorr and myself, we’re seeing these issue on the louder end of normal (for my levels, at least). We’re not pushing the drivers to what should be their limit, that’s not the point. We’re not nit-picking headphones at their limit, we’re upset that they’re messing up at 87 dB.
     
  13. gLer

    gLer New

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    Fair enough, although I’d say there’s quite a bit of sample variation - and also different amp variations - because my Elear doesn’t come anywhere near the clipping point until it’s well over 90dB. The fact that some units clips south of 90dB is admittedly concerning.
     
  14. Lou Casadonte

    Lou Casadonte Friend

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    @Vansen and @JoshMorr The specific artist/track we were listening too was Explosions in the Sky's 'Loosing the Light' . I have not been able to reproduce the issue we had on any other track. If you guys want that track I can drobox it to you. Hope the move is working out for you @Vansen ! Good luck on the west coast!
     
  15. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I can hear breakup in the left driver on Silent Shout by The Knife at tolerable volumes. Good thing I only use it as a test track. Nothing on bass heavy stuff I usually listen to when I tried cranking it up as loud as I dare.
     
  16. gLer

    gLer New

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    I love that track (and album). Never had any driver issues with any of the tracks, title track included. And that’s one album I like to push beyond my comfort zone for volume - it’s just so visceral.
     
  17. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Still working my way through the thread so apologies if this has been covered. I have spent considerable time with the Clear and really like them. I prefer them to the HD800/S and my trusty HD600. Despite the weight I find them very comfortable but I have a small head so clamping force is about right for me. I definitely agree that a tube amp is required with these. I have listened to them through a variety of amps (iFi iCAN Pro, Bryston, Woo WA6 w/ upgraded tubes, Valhalla 2, Gilmore Lite etc). The WA6 was my favourite but I don't like the high output impedance and feel I can do better. Has anyone listened to them through a Mjolnir 2? What about a DNA Stratus or EC ZDS?
     
  18. slankoe

    slankoe Tongue tastes of LH butthole

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    Clear are very nice on Mjolnir 2 with WE396a tubes, though some may find it to be too dynamic, fatiguing, and detailed. This combination seemed to give a lot of these technicalities at the cost of sounding less natural. However, it seemed that the Mjolnir 2 and Clear have synergy in regards to the timbre, it brings more refined treble and a super tight low end.
     
  19. scapeinator1

    scapeinator1 Once You Go Black You'll Never Go Back

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    I know that pretty much everything that can be said about the clear has been said and most people will probably just get an Elex anyway, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there. I've had these for about two weeks, I burnt them in for like 40 hours before listening. I use a Jot with balanced dac module through XLR for the Clear.

    I think the first thing that struck me about the Clear is just how "well-behaved" the bass is for everything. Inevitably with almost every other headphone or IEM I've tried, I always run into the pitfall of the bass to varying degrees occluding everything else that is happening in that moment. I noticed this immediately when I was watching the "Chilling Adventures of Sabrina" on Netflix. There is a scene in one of the early episodes where they throw a birthday part for Sabrina and there is music playing in the background. I was shocked at how the bass really seemed dissociated from the dialogue and dropped into the background. When I listen to music, especially music with prominent kick drums or bass hits, the bass has an almost "bouncy" quality to it that just feels so tight and satisfying. It's well contained, much better than the 6XX. I imagine this has something to do with low distortion or the focal driver design. The bass response does leave a tad to be desired to be honest, but it does compare decently to my LCD2C in that department (I concur with purr1n's evaluation of this comparison).

    The overall tonality and is pretty much right on the money for me 95% of the time. But there is 5% of the time when there is a little bit of peakiness in the treble that makes songs a bit sharp (random ex: Hatchie's "Sure" not the audiotree live session). It's nothing intolerable and the Clear certainly doesn't sound veiled, but one of the things that I treasure about the 6XX is that nothing ever sounds harsh. I suppose this is the price you pay to look beyond the veil.

    Vocals and midrange in general is exactly what I want it to be. Guitars and vocals sound full bodied and the little details of lip smacks, enunciation, and breath sounds are well-integrated. I noticed this especially when listening to the album "Pageant Material" by Kacey Musgraves. Tracks like "Dime Store Cowgirl", "Late To The Party", and "Biscuits" sounded exceptional with guitars and her vocals well balanced with plenty of the finer detail sounds accompanying the lower mids. But there are these moments when she sings some harsher syllables like "Ch" or "Ss" where these harsh sounds slightly come to dominate the mix for a split second. And this gets kind of irritating.

    What I love about the bass is that it isn't intrusive, but I can't say the same for the treble. That lyrics example is just one instance. This happens every so often with hi hats or cymbal crashes or anything that you can imagine reaching the same frequencies as what I have described. I genuinely feel that it occludes the rest of the song at times and suddenly all I get is "SSSSSSSSsssss". I could imagine a better headphone where somehow that gets resolved where this kind of smeary sharpness isn't there.

    To be fair though, it isn't that bad, but it does get on my nerves.

    Ultimately, I am enjoying my experience with the Clear as a former daily 6XX user. There is a lot about it that I love. It retains everything that I like about the 6XX but with better bass and no veil. But the driver does have what I think are technical limitations in the treble that can't be solved with pad rolling or simple modifications. I wouldn't want less treble overall, I would just want better treble. To be honest, I think that the Elex is the smarter buy at this point. But I don't regret getting the Clear.
     
  20. gLer

    gLer New

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    I’m sure you know this already but that’s called sibilance, and it’s my #1 no-no on any headphone. I own the Elex (well, Elear with Elex pads, same thing), and fwiw it’s one of the only headphones I’ve used that has never, ever reproduced sibilance on any track —and I have plenty of torture test tracks I go through when auditioning headphones. I’ve read that the Clear can be a touch brighter than the Elex, and your description seems to verify that.
     

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