Schiit (MultiBit) Bifrost

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by FlySweep, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh! It was you. That's cool to see you still have it. :headbang:

    Yeah, it's an endless listen w. this one.
     
  2. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Does anyone know if the Bifrost Multibit output run a little hot?
     
  3. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    The Land of Enchantment
    I suppose it depends on what DAC you're coming from. The Bifrost (both D-S and multibit) has a rated maximum output voltage of 2.0 Vrms. So if you're coming from Modi Multibit (also rated at 2.0 Vrms), it would be about the same. But if you're coming from a Modi 2 Uber (rated at 1.5 Vrms), then yes you may find yourself backing down the volume on your amp or preamp. If I recall correctly, the redbook standard is 2.0 Vrms (for unbalanced outputs), but it does tend to vary between DACs. FWIW, the Soekris dac1541 (also pretty popular here), is also rated at 2.0 Vrms.
     
  4. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    So I just received my first Bifrost. It is a 4490 with USB Gen 2, but also was included was the 4390 non-Uber Analog board...version 1.10 it says. "BifrostupupAna v1.10".

    Anyway, my question is what is an OPA2134 doing on the board.

    I flipped over on the bottom and there is an SOIC OPA2134. I cannot tell where it is going or what is tied to. I thought these were all supposed to be discreet? Or maybe just the UA was. Could it be just for AC coupling? Output buffer? Low pass filter? I know it must not be for the I/V conversion.
     
  5. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    It's probably a DC servo. Schiit amps have them too. Its either that or a capacitor coupled output.
     
  6. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    You are probably right. I am guessing DC servo as well. The 2134 is really quite good for this. My C-2C amp uses it for the same purpose.
     
  7. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    Schiit site says "DC coupled" for the Bifrost. So I am going to assume the OPA2134 is for this purpose for the non Uber ones.

    Note: only created a separate thread because this thread is titled with "(Multibit)" which did not pertain to my question.
     
  8. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    42°S
    A friend has asked some advice on putting together a mid tier setup for HD650. I’m more than likely going to recommend Valhalla 2. Has anyone heard Bifrost Multibit recently? Any chance there has been a silent revision? My memories of OG Beefroast were tubby limp dick souffle bass, which is completely at odds with my experience of other Schiit DACs. Otherwise I will probably just recommend Modibit/Eitr.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  9. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,235
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No idea about whether there's been a silent revision/firmware changes for the Bifrost Multibit, or how it compares to the Modi Multibit, but I did notice a improvement when I upgraded from the Modi 2U in

    1) Soundstage and detail precision
    2) Bass quantity (hard to say for sure whether quality improved with just headphones)

    While using a Vali 2 with HD700s and Focal Elears. This is a slightly older Bifrost Multibit with either gen 2 or 3 USB input. Not sure if Gen 5 changes anything significantly in that regards either.
     
  10. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    The Modi got V2 firmware. Chances are the update also hit Bifrost Multibit, ya? Same chip. I'm betting at the minimum that it got that.

    Chances are good we have some B serial numbers floating about, which we've seen on every other product meaning an output design change.

    I would be willing to bet a new Bifrost Multibit sounds better than an A or C serial numbered one. How much is the question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  11. AudioNut

    AudioNut Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    Torq posted (
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3.6855/page-3#post-226487 ) a brief mention about how the latest Bifrost MB he received sounds better than past Bifrost MBs. I'm not sure if he's referring to a preproduction unit or just the current Bifrost MB with updated firmware, but it does sound like you're right and there are probably some newer Bifrost MBs floating about.
     
  12. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    Have not compared side by side, but my Bifrost was just upgraded to MB.

    Compared to @Skyline's Bifrost Multibit, things do seem to be a tad clearer and a bit more "in focus", Did not seem as slow and had more control in the bass.

    With Valhalla 2, it is really nice. However it does sound slightly thicker than the 4490. I thi k the 4490 might have been a better pairing as you get great details and no-haze, the Bifrost Multibit clears up the mids even more, but to some might sound mid-centric, however, that is just 650's being 650's and oveall overstated. Essentially, lush mids and enveloping soundstage and less forgiving on poorly recorded tracks - fantastic on good recordings...could listen for days.

    So @FallingObjects if you are worrying about tube murkyness, the new Bifrost Multibit is iimproved.
     
  13. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    Thinking of picking up a Gen5 Bifrost Multibit.. I currently have Jotunheim with Multi-Bit module, i've been itching to try a dac upgrade. I got one of the first Jotunheim's and used the built in 4490 card (1st gen) until the Multi-Bit upgrade was available, and immediately purchased it once it came out, it's ok, but it feels a bit compressed/congested. I've heard better stuff before.

    I really think Schiit Gen2 might be crap. Anyways, Modi Multibit + Eitr is a 2 box solution that comes in at ~429 new or about 330 used. While Gen5 Bifrost are available for 400 used, and looks nice with Jot stack...

    Was pretty irritated and disappointed when JOT's multibit card did not live up to the performance of Modi Multibit, and many prefer the 2nd gen 4490, early adopter woes..

    It's also pretty annoying that Schiit silently updates their products without even offering older revisions an upgrade option. This also lowers their used value. I've got one of the first Jotunheim's so surely it's inferior one, with no chance of upgrade. Better to call it Rev B and offer upgrades to existing users. Now people don't even know what they are buying on the used market, and you've got different product that measures and sounds different with no indication. If the new revision is something as simple as a different resistor here or there, probably best to not mess with it until it's worth a Rev.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  14. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, ME
    Just to add to your revision madness, Bifrost Multibit will ship with B serial numbers at some point, maybe already is.

    As for transparency, very few companies do what you are asking. Being an early adopter has pros and cons.

    With Jot specifically, the rumor was a few parts became unavailable, were swapped for ones with better supply chains and sound happened to be tweaked. Other rumors were you could leave one im your car with the windows closed in California on a scorching hot day. The real question is, are the two versions notably different, or do we all read too much on the internet and if someone swapped old jot for new jot without your knowledge, would you even know. Im guessing they sound close enough, most would not.
     
  15. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Really getting tired of the constant whining about “silent revisions” and “hidden upgrades” and “how dare you reduce the value of my gear on the used market before I had a chance to sell it”.

    Would you prefer they charge you $200 plus shipping to upgrade your current Jot to a version with only slight differences, or just sell your old one and buy a new one?

    They never said they would offer upgrades on amps that I’m aware of, and considering the price vs. performance ratio of their stuff, it’s no wonder. Offering upgrades on such low margin stuff makes zero sense and I’m sure would be a serious pain in the ass and a distraction from actually building newer and better products, and being able to put those out for the rock bottom prices Schiit charge for a made in USA product.

    The fact that they even offer hardware upgradable DACs down to Bifrost price level is kinda crazy IMO, especially when they generally need to be done in the factory (USB card being the exception). You can see from some of the challenges they had getting all the Yggdrasil upgrades processed that this is not a simple thing, let alone getting into $400 amps. The DAC cards are swappable in Jot - that’s as good as it’s going to get, and a hell of a lot better than almost every other AIO amp/DAC out there.

    Can we create a thread to put all the Schiit silent revision whiners in one place?


    Edit: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone on this post, not usually my thing - but the rest stands.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  16. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    10,517
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palms Of The Coasts, FL
    I prefer short term bans.
     
  17. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    I agree with most of what’s said, like schiit, read the book. So chill I’m already part of the fan club guys. There is a lot of talk on this forum of the various silent revisions, often times by respected veterans here. I personally feel like this is bad form on schiits part and they probably know it. It makes buying used gear a real pain too.

    I’m looking at a used bifrost now and all I have to go on is a sch-04 tag and usb gen5 sticker. Anyone have any ideas what rev that is?

    Considering the most expensive part of bifrost is its chassis, I do t think it’s
    Some miracle that schiit upgrades them at their prices, I think they order new boards and probably swap out the guts in less then 10 minutes and collect a healthy profit, and they should, else what is the point.

    Edit: talk of banning over a simple criticism is pretty hardcore... check my post history it’s not like I’m some troll. I don’t post here a lot but I feel like I’m taking the heat for what must be a sensitive issue, unbeknownst to me, just walked into the room and caught that one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  18. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Agreed, ban is definitely excessive in this case and not warranted. But complaining about upgrades is not going to win friends. Had they announced an actual upgrade to Jot, your unit would have lost a heck of a lot more value than it would currently, and like I said, there are no upgrades for these (which you should have known going in), so you’d be even more SOL.

    For Bifrost Multibit, or any Schiit DAC (or other products for that matter) the reason these things aren’t announced is that they’re not announcement worthy - if they were, they would be announced. I’ve owned both OG Gungnir Multibit and the unannounced “Gungnir Multibit A2” at the same time (just sold OG Gungnir Multibit) and honestly, I can’t say which one I prefer.

    This sort of sums up my feeling WRT the diffs:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-multibit-impressions.158/page-32#post-220634

    And check out K4rstar’s below that. So there are differences, and maybe some clear technical improvements with the A2, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually more enjoyable to listen to.

    Mike and Jason have both acknowledged running changes, and Jason even wrote a chapter about it. Mike’s recommendation was to buy new in order to ensure you get the latest stuff. I still prefer to buy used most of the time, and in this case, you best best is to ask the seller when he purchased the Bifrost Multibit and/or ask for the receipt. Gungnir Multibit happenned to get a serial number revision, but I managed to get a newish Modi Multibit purchased in May and it appears to have the latest firmware as well. Best bet is to buy the youngest one you can find, something less that 6 months old, and you have a good chance of getting one of the latest. Otherwise, buy new if you want to be ensure it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  19. winterfog

    winterfog Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Likes Received:
    169
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I have a Bifrost "Uber" D/S with no USB input that I bought used years ago. I'm sending it in for the Multibit and Gen V USB upgrades, and hopefully servicing for the Toslink jack, which is in rough shape.

    I'll admit that I've procrastinated on buying the upgrades due in part to all of the noise out there surrounding the topic of Schiit's silent & not-silent revisions. I've idly wondered whether the Bifrost that comes back will be lesser in some way than a new-production model, and whether the $400 for the upgrades would be better spent elsewhere. I also delayed for numerous months last year because the rumors surrounding the not-yet-announced Lyr 3 made me think that a new Bifrost Multibit upgrade was around the corner. (It wasn't.)

    All of that analysis-paralysis was stupid. Life's too short. Most of the reported "silent revision" differences are probably illusory products of confirmation bias / placebo effect in the first place. And most of any difference that remains is probably due to firmware, which will get upgraded during servicing. Maybe a new official upgrade is coming next month; but maybe it'll never come. I have a Modi Multibit, an Eitr, and a decently resolving amp with two inputs, so I can easily compare the Bifrost and post some impressions when I get it back. If I'm not blown away, at least I'll have a unit with enough resale value to be worth selling.
     
  20. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    Well, I purchased the Used Bifrost Multibit with USB Gen 5. It won't ship out till Wednesday. The unit is from 2016, and was upgraded to Gen 5 USB sometime in mid 2018. I wonder if Schiit upgrades the mainboard firmware when they do a USB upgrade. It's a little older then I'd have liked, but the price was pretty good (400$ including shipping/fee etc).

    Im hoping to hear a significant improvement over the Jotunheim Multibit card. I purchased it in april 2018, I listened to it quite abit at first and remember really enjoying it over the 1st gen 4490 dac card. Then I got busy with life and did not get much time to use the Jotunheim and it sat for a few months unused.. I started listening to it again recently and am just not happy with what im hearing. Things sound really conjested and nasally, compressed and a bit harsh.

    It's weird because I don't remember this when I first auditioned the Multibit Module. Nothing about the setup has changed.. Using balanced HD650's, tidal hi-fi, wasapi exclusive, same PC, same power cords and conditioner (PS audio). Also using a Wired 4 Sound Recovery to feed multibit module. Of course I tried taking it out of the loop, that change is definitely negative. (it sounds better with the W4S)

    Im not sure why im not happy with it anymore.

    Im also considering trying out LYR3 + the Bifrost Multibit Gen5. I need to read about that pairing a bit. That would be almost a direct swap $$$ wise, could sell the JOT + Multibit for probably ~450$ and just buy a brand new LYR3 or even a used on for ~400$. Might buy it new from Schiit once I get the Bifrost Multibit and get a feel for it's sound, then I could compare JOT vs LYR3 and if I like what I hear sell JOT, or return LYR3 if I don't care for it.

    The JOT does alot of things well, but I've never been a huge fan of it's staging. Bit too narrow, that would make sense though as I've mostly used Hybrid amps in the past. I had an 02 for awhile, and don't recall it being so narrow/flat. Though it had other issues and to me, the JOT is much more enjoyable. I definitely suffer from USB Nervousa, and feel like GEN2 holds most of schiits product's back, so I'll be glad to be rid of that.

    I was really bummed that I could not try out Schiit Loki with JOT, as there's no way to hook that device up. Looking forward to trying it out, hardware EQ is great because it requires no software support. There's plenty of great EQ for Foobar, but most streaming software really sucks, guess I should be happy that Tidal at least supports WASAPI Exclusive, spotify is a no go for their lack of even basic wasapi support. I honestly think bypassing the windows mixer is more important then even lossless audio. I can pick up on the windows mixer pretty damn quick with JOT/Multibit Module/HD650.

    I've also been using JOT's pre-out for my JBL LSR305's, but have been told by many that this is not ideal, so will probably pick up a SYS to pair with the Bifrost and completely bypass the pre-amp.

    Was tempted to rip the Multibit card out of JOT and sell it to recoup some funds but I think I'll just leave it in there and recoup the cost when I eventually sell the JOT. Which may be sooner, rather then later anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018

Share This Page