ETHER 2

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Ice-man, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    I have not heard many headphones that offer the treble extension of the hd800. For me, when listening to classical, this is very important. Particularly when listening to orchestra where a violin is the features instrument. There is so much detail and fine layering from the violin that you don't want anything glossed over with that particular instrument.

    The only headphone that can render violin in such an emotionally captivating manner as the hd800 would be an e-stat (ie sr009 and hd90).
     
  2. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    You're joking, right? The wonky FR of the HD800 is uniquely weird with string harmonics. It's particularly bad when you've heard a piece IRL. It's the one thing that you should never use even a modded HD800 for, anything with strings.

    (It's a high bar, most things sound weird with strings, only a few manage it nicely, admittedly.)
     
  3. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Not joking at all. But I always use EQ with the hd800, so there's that.
     
  4. Sonorus

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    As an ex HD800sdr and now HD800s user listening only to classical music I have to agree with @Ice-man.
    Strings are rendered in the most natural way.
    Though I have to admit that for my ears the HD800s is a tad better tonality wise.
    Please note that I don't use the stock cable which I think affects the sound in a minus way.
     
  5. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I realized @Sonorus ' question was more interesting than initially thought. Yesterday night and this morning, I spent fairly good amount of time in listening to various classical recordings with hd800 stock, hd600, and ether 2. Why suddenly hd600? I will explain later.
    • The term "classical music" is too broad for this kind of question and discussion. I believe there is no single pair of headphones that is (perfectly) optimal for every sub-genre of classical musics, even if ignoring personal preferences.
    • IMO with HD800, we (or I) are not too immersed in the music because of treble tonality, recessed mids, and somewhat fucked timbre (yes, I partly agree with @Kattefjaes ) -- eq or mod may help but not perfectly. Anyway I would express this as a "distance" to the music.
    • Thus, this "not too close distance" makes hd800 more suitable for analytical purposes, which I think necessary for large orchestral works. I enjoy disassembling each chunk into smaller pieces and reassembling them in the brain. This process needs high resolving ability AND sufficiently low distraction (= not too close distance). Personally I perceive hd800, sr009, and utopia having this characteristic to some extent although they all sound different.
    • Ether 2, on the other hand, is the opposite regarding "distance". Great timbre (maybe a bit seductive), coherent/neutral (on the sweet side though) tonality, and slight dark nature combinedly reduce the distance. Emotionally (musically) good but analytically less favorable if not that bad.
    • HD600 and HD650 are placed in-between. But closer to E2. Similar things can be said for Auteur depending on pads.
    That said, here are my optimal choices.
    • If I buy a new symphonic recording (e.g., recently purchased Mahler no 5 conducted by Vanska), I will hear it first with hd800 to quickly understand structure and catch any noticeable performance. After being familiar, may spend more time with E2.
    • Solo, chamber musics, and something smaller (e.g., Bach's cello suites by Rostropovich) will be mostly heard with E2.
    • Also I tend to significantly prefer E2 when listening to opera and concertos.
    • HD6X0 won't win in any of the mentioned cases. But very versatile therefore overall the safest choice. Can be used for both analytical and emotional purposes for any kind of classical musics. Of course they have fundamental weaknesses in bass but FWIW classical music doesn't rely on "deep bass" that much, compared to other genres such as electronics and movie soundtracks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  6. Sonorus

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    What an essay!
    I am glad that my question inspired such an approach and analysis.
    Used to listen for years with HD650 but at the end didn't like them for classical music.
    I prefer the HD800s and this distance perception truth is for all genres of classical music.
    For more relaxed listening i use the HD58x.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Sadly, in practice, this doesn't actually work. @Muse Wanderer is better than me at explaining the terrible things that HD800 does to orchestral pieces- far from being analytical, it's often fundamentally weird and broken. It's a very extended and detailed weird and broken, which make you sure that you're being analytical- but like a Dali painting, shit's fucked-up yo.

    They're interesting headphones, and I am glad to own a pair, but would prefer to avoid them for orchestral stuff.

    You actually get closer to how the orchestra sounds with a fairly powerful amp that can grip the drivers, and a pair of 650s or 600s. The fuzzy, midbassy 650s with less microdetail are still far less misleading. You don't get the unicycling violinists that the Audeze produce, nor do you fail the "Bruckner Test" (I bloody love that- last movement of Bruckner's 5th) where the strings vanish when the brass is playing during the climax of the whole thing.

    Orchestras are hard. To retain our sanity, we either have to not listen to them live so we forget, or restrict ourselves to very specific chains. Of course, living in Europe, I don't have the choice, orchestral instruments are fuckin' everywhere (etc.).
     
  8. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Previously in this thread, I said "Ether 2 really don't sound like planars".

    While I didn't lie that time, I don't think the statement quite accurate. That's mostly because of the limited experience with "(neutrally) good" planars. I still like current-gen Audezes (LCD2C and LCD4) but they are far from what I consider neutral.

    Anyway, after auditioning two higher HFMs (HE1000 v2 and Susvara) and comparing them with my E2 recently, I feel obliged to revise my initial impressions. Yes, they are doubtlessly very good.

    Here are the summaries of my long listening notes (I heard them roughly three weeks ago, and completely forgot them until just before): also be aware that the upstream gears available at the store were kinda unfamiliar -- Chord Hugo TT (dac) and Allnic HPA-5000XL (amp).
    • Susvara surpasses E2 in terms of bass quality. Likely due to the single-sided magnet structure, E2 lacks hard-hitting and controlled bass with authority. Audeze and classic HFMs do this very well. To my ears, susvara is very close to classic HFMs regarding bass authority. Nonetheless E2 is fairly well-controlled for presumably weaker magnet, at least better than hek2.
    • Bass pitch and differentiation are great with E2 and susvara. Both of them were nearly on par. Maybe susvara is tad better or the opposite. They are superior to any other planars (or even any other headphones) I've ever experienced regarding "micro"-quality in bass. Note that I've not heard any of well-received "LFF Code" series (Code-5 and Code-X). No experience with AZ PMx2 either.
    • E2 simply sweeps in the midrange. Textbook clean, delicate and neutral midrange with a hint of sweetness. IMHO, HFM has been relatively weak in mids. To me this is one of the few minor weak points of susvara. Susvara reproduces better midrange than hek2 but seems to lose details and clarity by comparison (against E2). In addition, E2 has a more coherent and smoother mid-treble connection.
    • Susvara's treble is sharper, better-defined but a little tipped up. Slight sibilance is heard with some tracks. But all these don't sound bad at all. It's not weakness-level shit but rather philosophy/character. E2 has more relaxed and a bit laid-back (but not too so like hd650) treble by comparison. I like both. No clear winner.
    • Both susvara and e2 have nearly zero-veil over the entire frequency range. Sounds very transparent(-ish).
    • Head stage and instrument separation/placement are fantastic with both susvara and e2. Overall satisfaction will be largely depending on upstream gears.
    • Susvara and e2 have really good microdynamics, microdetails, and plankton. Nothing to complain to my ears.
    • In terms of perceived speed, susvara has faster transience, more sufficient decay, and less soft attack. E2 is by no means bad but definitely softer. E2 and hek2 are alike in this regard.
    • Regarding ergonomics, E2 is definitely lighter but it favors a certain shape of skulls. To me wearing comfort is great but to some it can be a disaster. What is worse, sonic quality of E2 highly depends on wearing fit and seal. On the contrary, susvara and hek2 have more options and flexibility including rotating swivel. They can satisfy more people.
    • E2 doesn't require as much juice and power as susvara. So, I am guessing that susvara may have more potential if a better amp is paired. Matched allnic tube amp was quite nice imo though.
    I am not comfortable with susvara's price, easily out of my budget range. While I enthusiastically love susvara now, it is too overpriced by all means. However it's difficult to criticize different pricing strategy (also beyond my interest). Anyway, susvara shows me "contemporary HFM planar done right", and helps me identify where E2 exists in the continuum of current headphones on the market -- more like souped-up susvara combined with good traits of auteur/hd650.

    Forgot this: stock cable is way nicer with E2.. E2 vivo cable (stock) is largely at the same ballpark with zmf atmos one. Hate hfm stock cables..

    TL;DR
    1. Susvara and Ether 2 are both awesome to me. Largely in the same ballpark. Few major weaknesses with both.
    2. Susvara wins: bass, speed, macro-character
    3. Ether 2 wins: midrange, coherence, tonality, cable
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  9. Rowethren

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    Great impressions and comparisons. Any chance you will get hold of an Empyrean any time as that seems to be an interesting potential competition for the Ether 2.
     
  10. Sonorus

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    I have been listening the last 2 hours Bruckner's 5th with various recordings i.e Chailly , Harnoncourt , Skrowaczewski
    with HD800s , Gungnir Multibit and mj2 with some mullards.
    Can't hear this vanishing thing , everything is spot on and tonally correct.
    Can't imagine another headphone that can render better this orgasmic climax without missing a note.
    The layering is perfect and you can individually detect every instruments groups without one over shadowing the other.
     
  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I hope so. As a planar-head (thought I was a planar-hater, but turns out I ain't lol), I'm interested with a few solid planar contenders including
    • Audio zenith pmx2
    • LFF code 5 and X
    • Meze empyrean
    • Final D8000
    • HFM Arya (from what I heard, arya is black he1000 v2.1 with low-cost material)
    While I am not on the market any more, want hear and hopefully measure them if I get a chance.
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    On an HD800? Did you like mod the shit out of it?

    If not, I’m not doubting it’s technical prowess, ability to sound semi-normal on some recordings, or mod potential for better tone, but I think you need personal hearing calibration.
     
  13. Sonorus

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    HD800s stock.
    Oh please excuse me.
    Didn't I mentioned that I am wearing hearing aid's and I have them HD800 calibrated?
     
  14. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    That’s a pretty atypical and extreme use case for them then.
     
  15. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    if you seriously have hearing aids- remove yourself from the mantle of expounding "sonic perfection" here,
    especially to the trained ears of the young-lings here who retain the natural hearing of a bat. or canine.

    i'm closer to hearing aids than young-ling ears also, but aging (or augmented) old ears are not proof positive.
    @Hands can hear mouse farts from across the windy grasslands without augmentation, and having old men attempt to define a standard of excellence is futile.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  16. Rowethren

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    That sounds great. But do you really think you are out of the market? LOL The number of times I have thought that it isn't even funny... ;)
     
  17. Sonorus

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    @jexby why the dislike?
    I thought it was obvious that I am joking.
    If though my humour was inappropriate I have to apologize and I recall immediately as I wouldn't like to offend anyone.
    Please accept my apologies.
    @Hands also too.
    I can hear perfectly and still find the HD800s tonally correct but this is my opinion and I wouldn't like to flame or start another HD800s thread.
    So let's end this by just saying that Bruckner's 5th is a masterpiece!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  18. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    (striking unlike from the record, wasn't obvious you were joking or talking down to Hands. either way, we move along.)
     
  19. Sonorus

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  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I’m more upset to find it was a joke and land back at my original statement.
     

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